How the Watchtower Screws Up Your View of Scripture

by CalebInFloroda 63 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • CalebInFloroda
    CalebInFloroda

    I am not sure that we are saying anything different from one another, at least not at the beginning.

    I wasn't saying that the word came from Jerome's translation but from a Latin word. The term was used in Catholic catechesis and liturgy, and it became Anglicized as "Gentile." I was talking more specifically about the etymological history of the term. I wasn't referencing the Vulgate or current Neo-Vulgate and claiming either Jerome's or the current Holy See's text used "gentilis."

    But it is also a falsehood that a word-for-word translation is more precise or correct than a dynamic approach. I speak several languages, including Bibilical Hebrew, Koine Greek, and Ecclesiatical Latin. No one translates or can translate one language into another in a true word-for-word manner, not even the NASB or NWT. All words have to be rendered contextually to at least some degree because of restrictions due to differences of idiom. There is no such thing as a true word-for-word version, and those that attempt to produce translations like this often give the worst renditions.

    The LXX is not a word-for-word translation of the Hebrew, the Vulgate is not a word-for-word translation of the Greek, the KJV and the NASB are not word-for-word either. Only interlinear readings offer true word-for-word renditions, and if that type of translation was all we had to go by, we (or more accurately you) would understand even less than what current versions give you today.

    The original Greek word in question means "nations," true, but are you reading the word "nations" like what the word means today or are you reading it as what it meant in the first century? The "nations" of the past were not secular like they are today. There was no "separation of church and state," so to speak then. Each nation had its national gods and was identified not just by a different culture but one heavily linked to the worship of national gods. So the word did not just mean a group of people under a particular government, but a nation of heathen or pagan people when compared or speaking to an audience of Jews. There were no secular states back then.

    In Matthew the context is referring to prayers said by these people. Religion and religious practice is central to the identity of these "nations" in this verse because their repetition in their prayers is the subject matter. So Jesus is speaking not just about secular ethnic groups of people, but religious ethnic groups, heathens or pagans from the standpoint of the Jews. From the view I would say the NWT is not being accurate enough if it just uses "nations" since most today read that word without knowledge of the connection to religion that each ethnic group had in those days.

  • Clambake
    Clambake

    I had a discussion with a JW one time about the book of John and “ the word was a god “. I told him I believe John gave a good reference of Jesus being “ the angel of the lord” from the old testament, the figure that was identified as being God and with God. If you look at the quotes from the old testament and how they are used and the I AM statement, I believe the book of John testifies to the identity of Jesus and how he believed Jesus was God in the flesh.

    Then I asked “ What do you think the book of John is about and how it relates to the new testament “ ?

    Silence. Interesting, I must be going. Good to meet you.

    JW if it isn’t some crazy weird code they believe they have cracked really have no idea what the hell the bible is all about. The WTS trains you to think so far outside the box you really forget how to think inside it.

  • Freeandclear
    Freeandclear

    Just reading over some of this just now and all I really got out of this was the same old thing....namely: Confusion.

    The Jew's think one thing, the Christians (all 45,000 of their sects) think another, the Muslims another, etc etc etc and on and on ad nauseum.

    For me God and Truth boil down to one simple thing..... Here it is: IF there is a God, he/she/it does not care one bit about how or if we worship.

    Why conclude this? Because there is NO solid "truth" out there. That's why there are a billion different ideas about truth. IF God really exists and is truly Almighty and REALLY wanted a specific style of worship from US lowly humans then HE WOULD HAVE MADE THIS KNOWN and not just known to a few or one, but to all. And he has not. End of discussion for me.

    I hope there is something better after this human life. But if not I won't know anyway since I'll be gone, ie. Dead in the truest sense of the word.

    Perhaps the only real truth in life really is after all: Death and Taxes. Maybe that'll be my new religion.

  • Half banana
    Half banana
    You're so right Freeandclear, and the upside is that religion is not necessary in the first place...what a relief!

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