Governing Body Summoned For Jud Hearing

by silentlambs 213 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  abbagail

  JUDICIAL

  Who is on the committee? Any committee formed by Bill will be seen as being outside of "God's Organization" and hold no religous authority over the GB.

  ASSUMPTION? How do you know there are not current-active-JWs who have volunteered to be on the committee? If it was my battle, I wouldn't give their names to this forum so the WT could find out about it and DF them before the committee arrives on 10-27-02. Also, does it matter who "forms" the committee if they are not the ones sitting on it? Like Hawk said, why not call Bill right now and offer your assistance, since you seem to know alot about this.

  Silentlambs would start to look more like a JW internal political struggle than a provision for the victims of molestation.

  Silentlambs has more than one goal, and always has had more than one goal:
  1. Victims assistance.
  2. Reformation of the internal policies of the WTS/Org as respects child molestation (and DF'ing of SL victims, supporters, etc.). Hence, an internal "political" (leadership's policies) "struggle" is necessary, since no one up there is "listening." HEY, FELLAS! ARE YA LISTENING UP THERE? (Say WHAT?)
  3. There are other goals, but these two will suffice for the purposes of your comment...

  I would think it is time to abandon "theocratic procedure" and focus on lawsuits and media coverage of these. It's time to stop playing games.

  Is there not room enough for everyone's efforts? If you want to focus on lawsuits and write to the media, please, by all means, do so, and/or keep doing it if you already are. Why does it have to be only ONE way? Why can not ALL of these avenues be pursued? Lawsuits ARE being filed, media articles ARE being written. And the "JW-judicial" procedure/process is not over 'til it's over.

  IMO, it is important to never, ever, even remotely appear to be stooping to their level.

  For Bill to stay right on THEIR LEVEL makes a world of sense to me. THEY wrote the "rules" so the really ONLY way to "reason" with them is by THEIR OWN RULES. All JWs KNOW THAT. It seems obvious to me that this NEEDS to be "played out" to the end, even if some feel it is "futile." To use their OWN reasoning, Jehovah himself has allowed mankind and the nations to "play out" their ideas/ways of doing things, and for what? TO MAKE A POINT, i.e., to SHOW that they are INADEQUATE and do NOT WORK for the betterment of the entire human race. Should not silentlambs do the same thing - to make it clear to all (John Q. Worldly-Public and JW-alike) that the policies of the WTBTS/GB do NOT WORK and are INADEQUATE? (concerning the DF'ings AND the sex-abuse-policies, pedo's at your door, etc.)

  Since no one to date has taken on the GB re: "sex crimes," there is no prior "polished" footprint to follow, so someone had to be the "Davy Crockett" (with hatchet) whose motto, BTW, was "Be always sure you are right, then go ahead."
• 

  hillary_step

  Farkel,

  If you don't like some of the things Bill is doing, then take it to him privately, not here.

  If you do you 'take it to him privately', then you are liable to me met by a long and vitriolic essay, punctuated by the thought that anybody who disagrees with his methods is a 'dickhead' and then insisting that if you write more than two sentences in reply to this essay, he will not bother reading it....lol In the entertainment business I am daily regaled by those who have fallen in love with their own press, so this attitude is not a great surprise to me. It seems to me that Bill feels strongly that he is being used by God in this cause, and in this he might learn a lesson from the GB who also started out believing that way. I think that this belief is at the route of his heart before head modus operandi.

  As some who know me personally will have noted, I have in recent months been feeling less of a need to involve myself in the life of an XJW and more of a need to move on to more creative projects, so it is to you Farkel, whom I have come to respect greatly that I present my good-byes.

  I wish you all my very best in your prospective journeys, thank Simon for being such a gracious host and offer a sincere good luck to Bill.

  Kindest regards - HS

  Edited by - hillary_step on 5 October 2002 14:54:7
• 

  abbagail

  COURTS/LEGAL

  These issues need to be viewed through the eyes of a shrewd lawyer and the practiced politician. That is the type of person who will be reading them.

  Are you offering to hire and pay for an attorney? (Even if there already IS a silentlambs.org attorney and/or funds for one, in all of the JC letters from the WT re: the committees formed for Bowen/Andersons/Pandelos, et al., those JC's REFUSED to go thru attorneys, saying this involved "spiritual matters" rather than "legal matters." Therefore, even if Mr.-Silentlambs-Attorney (vs. Bill himself) sent a nice polished letter to the GB stating their "spiritual crimes" and summoning them to a JC, would they pay attention to that?

  ...do you actually think that a court of law is going to be impressed with an invitation sent to the GB to attend a 'counsel meeting' with Bill in Kentucky....lol

  Again:
  The 10-28-02 meeting w/the GB is obviously NOT for the COURT SYSTEM, but at this point in time (IMHO) it is for "doing the right thing," via the "FRAMEWORK of the JW judicial system" (not the gov't's judicial system, at least not yet) wherein the accused are "supposed" to be allowed to face their "accusers." Bill wrote that even though the JC's have not followed their own protocol in that aspect with lambs, himself and others, silentlambs WILL make that "theocratic/judicial process" available to the GB (who have been "accused). Why is it so hard to see that THIS is the one purpose of THIS particular letter?

  Bill has made serious accusations, that five members of the GB have molested children. These are allegations of a criminal nature and can only be dealt with through the Law, not by a meeting in a motel room in Kentucky. This letter, if serious should have been sent by a lawyer, after the lawyer drew lines through most of it.

  The letter looked dead serious to me. How do you know the police WON'T be AT the JC at the motel, too? (I never met such a bunch of impatient people who won't let things play out to their finish. Are men always this "suspicious" of each other? Is that a "Martian" thing?)

  FIRST THE THEOCRATIC/JUDICIAL PHASE, through to it's completion, THREE STRIKES YOU'RE OUT (remember THREE for "EMPHASIS"?) Silentlambs requested one meeting (ignored by GB). This is the second (most probably will also be ignored). That means one more to go (or maybe 77 total times it will be offered!) THEN all "FAIR and reasonable avenues" will have been exhausted, and ENTER FBI/Scotland Yard/Interpol/USA police/lawyers en masse/Judge Judy/whoever.
• 

  JT

  lisa says:

  ":Actually, it seems like a LOT of people think this."

  ____

  thanks for your response, but i would like to follow up if you don't mind, in your comment above have you paused to consider why "a LOT" of folks think this may not be the most effective way to have handled this issue? I can't speak for others only my own exp and one thing that i know for sure and that is Organizational Procedure. infact when i was a jw i felt the the mark of a good elder was to as one of my mentors instructed me TO KNOW ORGANIZATIONAL PROCEDURES LIKE THE BACK OF YOUR HAND.

  and when i read the comment that he was "following theocratic procedure" i just chuckled for i thought it was merely tongue and cheeck, but if this is "Suppose" to be taken as a serious letter, then sad to say he has missed the mark

  i will assume for the sake of argument since i along with many others have not spoken to bill we have no idea of WHO HIS AUDIENCE IS.

  this letter will be sent to someone who works in the Service Dept who handles letters coming out of KY.

  my old roommate up in patterson has been on the Service Desk for almost 17yrs now and this tpe of letter comes in all the time FOLKS DECLARING THE GB TO BE WICKED and they read it and make notes and file it away , in most cases as he told me it never reaches even the gb desk

  being that it is from "BILL" they may mention we got some more corrosponces from the guy in KY

  but one thing is for sure THE LEGAL DESK WILL GET A COPY and you can rest assured that wt lawyers will have no problem using this in court with it comes to est CHARACTER PROFILES

  I personally know 3 of the lawyers in legal- Carolyn WAh( single black sister) Phillip Brumley( they sent him to school - he use to work in the carperter shop building furniture), William Bell ( single black bro - 300lb- he is a big boy) and there is another guy named Olsen- he did a weekend speicial talk program in my old hall for a sat night program and sunday talk

  my only point is i hope bill is not setting himself up- bottom line the cause is too great and too important to get lost in the shuffle.

  rarely has the advice to use caution been wrong in my exp on almost any issue--, while rushing ahead without considering all facets has time and again been shown to be costly
• 

  abbagail

  DOES BILL HAVE A PLAN (v. Being Totally OFF THE WALL)

  I am not trying to belittle Bill Bowen or the work he has done, but this is not the way.

  Then what IS the way, iyho?

  I get your point, just not the method.

  What method do you suggest? (sorry I couldn't keep all the posters' names straight). Is there anyone who would like to establish a "SILENT LAMBS II" and "do it your way"? My point is: One thing at a time (see above section on Court/Legal, etc.)

  Hey, what can I say? I was raised on "Bambi" whose mother said, "If you can't say something NICE, don't say anything at all.") Constructive Assistance is great, but if your methods include hiring a lawfirm to speak and write letters for Silentlambs, please bring your checkbook.

  Do you honestly see that there is any plan in effect that would make such a letter good for the cause?

  It is "good for the cause" in that WE who are standing with the lambs will KNOW that WE did the RIGHT THING even if THEY didn't. So, we'll ask 'em AGAIN to meet for a JC. Carry on, Bill, with The Plan.

  BEAUTIFUL COMMENT, Zechariah (page 4). I agree 100%. God Bless Bill and those who still believe.

  What point have I made? Where will such a demand take my cause?

  You have made a point on the side of righteousness, for doing the right thing in the right way, whereas they did not. It will "take [your] cause" to the side of the "good guys" who do what is right no matter what. So what if no R&F or GB cares or notices? If it was YOUR battle, then it is YOUR integrity that is on the line, and no one else's. Is that not enough "point" for you to make, so you can go to sleep at night and look at yourself in the mirror in the morning?

  Listen everybody, I have a sneaky feeling that BB knows EXACTLY what he is doing!

  My thoughts exactly. Thank you.

  ...this smells more like "side show" tactics, something to keep interest up after the march.

  
  Shall we let "dead dogs lie" and accept whatever THEY decide, now that the March is over?
  Or should we sit and "wait" for THEIR next move?
  Or, should we sit and wait for the FBI to make THEIR move?
  Or, since Bill is willing, why not encourge him to "hurry and run toward the battle line to meet the Philistine"? (I bet the other Israelites thought whaashisname-David looked pretty darn stupid at the time.)
  BTW, what would have been each of YOUR next moves, after the SL March? And don't forget to bring your checkbook...
  Surely, there have been priests who took on the POPE before, eh? (Farkel would know, I bet).

  Believe it, he "does" have a plan. It's clear from here if not from there.

  THANK YOU NANCEE. It's clear as crystal where I sit.
• 

  abbagail

  MYSTER SOLVED from prior threads...

  I can tell you frankly, that it unraveled over eighteen months of work that I have put in to confirm a case *with a paper trial evidence* that I had uncovered. Now the drawbridges have been pulled up, perhaps permanently. HS

  At least we now know why you are so irked at Pat's personal story. Please do tell YOUR evidence, and what are YOU talking about, and WHY did Pat's account cause YOUR paper trail/situation to shut down? Sincerely, we'd like to know. Maybe we could have more empathy for your frustration/situation. Don't want to tell us the details on a public forum? Why not?? Isn't THIS T-H-E place to tell us? You want Bill to tell us, so why not you?

  Just a very wild guess here: Someone on the inside of the WT was leaking info to you (the paper trail). But when they heard the Jaracz accusation, they got cold feet and pulled up the drawbridge and cut you off, because they can't fathom D.O.'s dressing up in sheets or robes, acting like Devils to scare the beegeebers out of a kid?
• 

  abbagail

  GOOD ADVICE...

  If you guys are having problems why not get closer with Bill so the left hand and the right hand know what's going on. -- Hawkaw

  THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT! (Maybe everyone will listen to you, Hawk). (Complaining is fine if you want to offer alternatives, money, take on some of the jobs, start Silentlambs II, etc.)

  Any other volunteers out there who would like to "take over the reigns" if you feel you have better ideas or methods? (Applications are being taken between 2 and 4 pm, with appointment. The pay is lousy and you should be prepared to NOT have your decisions and procedures appreciated by many if not most).

  Seriously, whatever is each of our "specialty," can we not all just work on the different aspects? This cause is big enough and there is plenty of room for everybody to have a share without criticizing what the other parts of the "cause" are doing. Right folks?
• 

  abbagail

  WINDING IT UP...

  Obviously, it makes no sense for the corrupt Governing Body to investigate themselves - but how can this force an independent investigation that can be viewed with any legitimacy?

  By possibly BAKER ACT-ING the entire Geriatric Body?

  I am very interested in finding out the recipient/s of the letter.

  Do the members of the Service Department even HAVE Names and Identities?

  LOL @ Vita who wrote: " I would say they need to step up to the plate and start 'splainin."
• 

  lisaBObeesa

  JT said:

  ":Actually, it seems like a LOT of people think this."

  thanks for your response, but i would like to follow up if you don't mind, in your comment above have you paused to consider why "a LOT" of folks think this may not be the most effective way to have handled this issue?

  Yes, I have.

  1 people think the letter sounds too angry

  2 people think the letter will be used in court to hurt Bills credibility.

  3 people think it is pointless

  4 people think the GB will not take the letter seriously

  5 people think it makes no sense because Bill is DF so he cant really call a JC against anyone, let alone the GB according to the rules.

  6 people think Bill is rushing ahead without considering all facets

  Thanks for explaining it to me again.
• 

  Farkel

  Hi Hillary,

  : If you do you 'take it to him privately', then you are liable to me met by a long and vitriolic essay, punctuated by the thought that anybody who disagrees with his methods is a 'dickhead' and then insisting that if you write more than two sentences in reply to this essay, he will not bother reading it....lol In the entertainment business I am daily regaled by those who have fallen in love with their own press, so this attitude is not a great surprise to me.

  Perhaps he just had a bad "hair day." We, all do. At the very least, the matter is discussed privately. Even though many feel they should have a "vote" in this matter, what Bill does is rightly up to him. Since that is the case, he will stand or fall on his own. Also remember: the child abuse situation now has a life of its own and Bill is now but one of many players. He provided the initial impetus, but many others have taken the ball and run with it. The WTS will have to squarely face and correct this problem, with our without and because or in spite of Bill Bowen.

  : It seems to me that Bill feels strongly that he is being used by God in this cause, and in this he might learn a lesson from the GB who also started out believing that way. I think that this belief is at the route of his heart before head modus operandi.

  I haven't discussed this with him but, but if it's true, remember that he was still a JW up until very recently and that sort of thinking is not always easy to shake. Then again, there always IS the possibility that he is being used by God. Only God knows the answer to that.

  : As some who know me personally will have noted, I have in recent months been feeling less of a need to involve myself in the life of an XJW and more of a need to move on to more creative projects,

  Believe me, I understand. Nonetheless, that will be our loss, Hillary.

  :...so it is to you Farkel, whom I have come to respect greatly that I present my good-byes.

  That feeling is mutual. Don't lose touch, though. Musicians should never do that, everything else aside!

  Farkel

  Edited by - Farkel on 5 October 2002 15:15:21