Might as well jump in... (page 2)

VeniceIT

Well this makes me feel all warm and cozy to be around such loving and forgving folk.

Ven

Princess

Why would anyone forgive? There has been no apology.

Rachel

So what maybe Bill screwed up, we just throw away EVERYTHING he's done, the time, the effort, the money, the stress... all of that just down the tubes 'cause we're pissed at him and think he screwed up???? What about all the other people involved. There are hundreds that have benefited from the SL movement that do not post here on this board, and have not been able to give voice to this cause. I guess one thing I learned about not being a JW anymore is unconditional love. People make mistakes, but you have to take the bad with the good. And I see all the good Bill has done, I can't throw all that away because I don't like some accusations he's made.

I'm not saying what he said is true or untrue, all I'm saying is he made some comments about ONE person that he shouldn't have said, especially on a public forum. Amazing has some interesting comments in the last post he made on one of the other threads(all these diff threads about the same subject is confusing me), about the fact that Ray did write the part in the BOE book about the 2 witness policy.

I'm more interested in the vitims and the cause and I don't see how all this fighting is going to accomplish anything. And if anyone knows anything about Ray it's the fact that he wouldn't want all this arguing even if it's in defence of him.

Ven

roybatty

Cygnus, I must have missed a few posts here and there but what exactly do you take issue with that Bill has said or believes?

Just curious.

siegswife

Why would anyone forgive? There has been no apology.

I don't know if I can agree with that. Bill apologized for any misunderstanding. I take this to mean that he's not entirely convinced that he did misunderstand Ray's stand on the issue, but has accepted that Ray doesn't feel that way now. He's seems willing to admit that he may have misunderstood Ray to begin with.

I don't know about any of you, but I've found myself in similar situations in the past. I've had people say things to me in a way that could be construed negatively, only to have them tell me that they didn't mean what I thought they meant. Putting the fact that I didn't totally agree the misunderstanding was on my part aside, I usually try to accept a resolution and take responsibility.

If Bill didn't apologize for what he said, it just might be that he's not convinced that the conversation didn't go the way he remembers it. From what he wrote, it sounds like both men think that their own memories of the conversation are correct. It still says alot that he's willing to admit that he may have misunderstood even though he's doubtful that he did.

In either case, I think this is a good example as to why people shouldn't put others on a pedestal. No one can live up to those sort of expectations.

***Edited because sometimes I have trouble writing coherent sentences.

Edited by - siegswife on 10 October 2002 10:43:13

ashitaka

This all started because SL supporters attacked us here when we made a normal critisism of ONE letter. People made suggestions. Then a weird thing happened. Everyone started taking sides, and saying riduculous things like if we didn't support him then we were like the GB.

Well, as someone who's been damaged by the GB, I take offense at that. In HS's note on the board, Bill makes some inflammatory statements about people who first dissented about the letter. I gave my opinion (as you're allowed to in America), and some people agreed, and others jumped all over what I said. It was not about Bill, but about the letter he wrote.

Then, he decides to take it personally and calls people here names. Sounds like a bucket of horses*** to me. If there was a real, sincere apology, then I think people would let it go, but calling us names for giving him our opinion of a simple letter.......that's ridiculous.

I am no longer a JW, so I no longer sit still when someone berates me for my opinion. I agree with Cygnus.

The man needs a professional who is removed from the JWs to take care of official business like this. That is not an insult, just good sense.

ash

waiting

If there's ONE of us who's not spoken too quickly, or ONE of us who's not understood exactly what the other person is saying, or ONE of us who has NEVER had the need to apologize....and didn't -----well, then..................that ONE is lying.

Anyone who waits too long for an apology could die of old age first. It's just words, and doesn't mean too much anyway. If an apology comes along - great. If not - get along with living as it's not worth the wait.

Live and let live.

waiting

ashitaka

agree with you Waiting, but it's just irritating that people who formerly supported Bill are so pissed off that they might not want to help SL anymore. An apology could go a long way in soothing things a bit, you think? This will die down, but people aren't going to let it go unless something is said methinks.

It doesn't matter to me personally. I have my own life to live.

But, I said something originally out of concern for SL, not because I was interested in bashing it.

It's a shame.

ash

waiting

Ashi,

This all started because SL supporters attacked us here when we made a normal critisism of ONE letter. People made suggestions. - ashi

That is an extreme oversimplification of what happened last week. What is a NORMAL criticism? What you may consider *normal* - I may consider weak, lewd, aggressive, mean, snide, etc., etc.

"People made suggestions?" Again, all in the interpretation. What you may consider *suggestions" - I may consider calling people "loonies", "hostages of aliens", etc.

Instead of dragging up all the agenda of last weeks posts.....why not let it cool down a bit? You have your interpretation - I, and hundreds of others posters, have ours. And just like assholes, we all have one - and most are different.

waiting

lol.........and I'm quickly editing my counter-use of words "normal" and "suggestions" to add - I was trying to make the point that we ALL perceive things differently. Our backgrounds definitely come into play.

(((((((((ashi)))))))))))))) - I wasn't trying to come after you, honest!

Edited by - waiting on 10 October 2002 11:11:4

ashitaka

(((((((((ashi)))))))))))))) - I wasn't trying to come after you, honest!

I know. Hell, I'm a peace-loving man!

It's perception, I agree. Still, re-read what was said in the original post. I think what we posted (the first 20 posts or so) were relatively constructive, and basically questioned the contents because the letter seemed less than professional, as if the letter was a 'JW F-you' to the GB, and not something more professional that the outside world would care about. That's what I got from the dissenting posts I read, including my own.

Oh well.

ash

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