Have you ever...

by AGuest 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    had someone well-respected like: the mutual friend whom everyone loves... or the teacher whom everyone loves... or the boss/co-workers whom everyone loves... or the elder/PO/elder's wife/PO's wife whom everyone loves... or the pioneer sister whom everyone loves... or the young handsome MS whom everyone loves...

    say something to YOU... that they wouldn't in a million years say to anyone ELSE... or cop to when the matter is presented to them because they could not BEAR to have folks know they REALLY think that way? So that when it all is brought forth, you are made to look like the trouble-maker because you said that such one said something they indeed DID say... and yet, in the face of those who "love and respect" them, vehemently deny it? Have you?

    Or have you had others, including perhaps one of those above, say you said something you DIDN'T say, not necessarily because they misunderstood you, but more truthfully because they heard what they WANTED to hear... rather than what you were SAYING... because their minds... and hearts... were in a whole DIFFERENT place... a place where they were TRYING to find something "against" you so that they could say, "AHA!" Have you?

    I have. Many times. Especially among JWs toward the "end" of my time with them. In fact, I would wager (were I a wagerin' woman) that Mr. Barber would VEHEMENTLY deny what he said to me... PERSONALLY... when I spoke with him face to face in 1997... and on MANY occasions... including here on jw.com... I have been accused of saying things I absolutely did not.

    Yes, dear ones, folks have told me stuff that I KNOW they would not say to others or cop to if called upon... and they do it ALL the time! And I have said things to others that I KNOW did not include what they said it did, but they are adamant that it did. Have you had such things occur with you?

    I have. And so, then, what was I to do? Well, all I COULD do was the "right" thing and say, "Well, apparently I heard them wrong; it was a misunderstanding,"... OR... "Apparently you heard me wrong; it was a misunderstanding." BUT... in TRUTH... both they and I knew... and know... what was truly said... and what was not. Yes? And when it's all said and done, that's really all that matters, isn't it? Is what they... and I... know to be true?

    (I must say that I do find it quite interesting... and perhaps even hypocritical... that some folks seem quite all right to have ones "defend" themselves through others while personally remaining silent when they can in fact speak for themselves, and are willing to excuse the silence due to... well, whatever reason... which I do not find fault with - people can and should speak only when THEY wish to and not because WE want/demand it - and yet, cry "foul" when one stands up for God, who they feel remains silent, while blaming God for His perceived silence... when in TRUTH He DOES speak (although such ones cannot... or WILL not... grasp HOW it is that He does)... and, yet, in TRUTH, He, God, has NO obligation to speak to ANYONE, regarding ANYTHING that He does/does not do, will/won't do, nor to supply an explanation about ANYTHING to ANYONE... even more so than puny-butt earthling man (who always seems to forget his puniness... until he is about to take his last breath and then who does he call upon?...)

    Am I the only one that "sees" the... ummmm... "double scale" that seems to exist here? No, I don't think so!

    Peace (if you've a mind to have any) to you all...

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • dyan4help
    dyan4help

    OH YEA.......

    Shortly after my husband died, late one night, my PO and a MS from my congregation came to my house. Both way too drunk to drive and had 2 6pks. of beer with them, and asked if I wanted some company. I have 2 young children who have not been around drunk people before so I made them sit on my front porch. For the next 2 hours the PO explained to me the trials of putting up with the kind of people we had in our congregation. He called them names, made fun of their problems and ended the night telling me what a bad sex life he has with his wife. He said they were soon going on vacation and wanted me and the kids to go. He said after his wife and the kids were asleep we could slip off for a while. The MS told me that a lot of men from our congregation were stuck in bad marriages and very unhappy. I told them it was too soon to think about another man. My husband wasn't dead that long. He left upset. The wife of the MS told other elders what happened and they asked me if it was true. I told them everything. The PO's wife came to my house very upset with me saying that I didn't realize what I was doing to her family.

    Dyan

  • Zechariah
    Zechariah

    That my girl Aguest,

    When you speak n your own name what you say carries must greater weight. I believe wholeheartedly in what you said.

    How can someone hear unless the take their hands from their ears. There is none so blind as he that WILL NOT see. There is willingness required. They cant blame God because than can't see or hear him. It is all within their power
    and not God responsibility to force himself on them.

    Thanks again for being personal.

    Zechariah

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    So that when it all is brought forth, you are made to look like the trouble-maker because you said that such one said something they indeed DID say... and yet, in the face of those who "love and respect" them, vehemently deny it?
    Oh YES! Elders do this all the time. It's called "theocratic warfare".

    I could name names, but I have experienced hearing lies/denials from 3 presiding overseers on SEPARATE occasions regarding things they said. But when called on it in front of their fellow elders, they each seemed to develop a strange amnesia (or theocratic war strategy). They are all about keeping their positions rather than telling the truth. My wife or I were made to look like fools and liars.

    But the same elders demand all the minute details ("truth") from weak ones inside their kangaroo courts judicial committee meetings.

    Two faced hypocrites!!

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Dyan... may you have peace!

    Yikes! I don't know who to feel sorrier for (certainly you!)... those men... or their wives... or both... or...

    My sincerest condolences to you for what they all unlovingly subjected you to, and GOOD FOR YOU... for holding your ground; with the men as well as with the wives!

    Peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • ugg
    ugg

    "SHUDDER"

  • dyan4help
    dyan4help

    Thank you AGuest......

    This fight went as far as the CO getting involved and I proved that the PO lied to them. They just closed ranks and I ended up disfellowshipped and he is still in good standing.

    I spent 25 years defending the witnesses to my family and co-workers and people who were friends of the family. We had friends because my husband was not a witness. I really don't mind losing faith in organized religion, its losing faith in my ability to make sound judgements for me and my children. I am ashamed to let anyone know what they did to me. Unlike most on this forum I was the only one in my family that was a witness. I preached to and fought with them but thank God no one listened to me. With my husband gone I only have my 4 children and an aged mother-in-law that I am taking care of. 2 of the kids are grown and gone. I would loose what respect they have for me if they knew everything that happened. I suffer in silence. I am not big on expressing my feelings. The people on this forum are as important to me as my family. I hurt for the silent lambs that are here. I understand the hurt and the anger and pain. And great kindness from you when you acknowledge my pain. Thank you for being there.

    Dyan

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Dyan... again, may you have peace!

    I am glad that you did not back down. In some instances, it's very important to stand your ground. I thought it interesting though, when you said, "They just closed ranks and I ended up disfellowshipped and he is still in good standing." My response to that is, "of course," and "better them (still in) than you." I know that this might sound trite, in light of the other things you've revealed, but truly, you are in the better position. Truly.

    With regard to now facing your family, I would say to you that they love you and you have nothing to worry about. If they make an issue, well, take it, chin up. It is unfortunate, but we all love to say, "I told you so." The WTBTS taught us to be SO self-righteous, that we probably argued points that we shouldn't have, had we known then what we know now.

    But you can make it a bit easier on yourself: now that you are FREE to love them, love your family with all that you have, that you have not given to God. WHATEVER remains, give to them. And since God does not require a lot (unless you're a JW), you have a LOT to give them. Then, when they see the "difference" in you, they will have pity and not want you to suffer so much. Let them know that YOU now see the error, that you were misled. Apologize, if you have to. Yes, I know... that can be painful, but... the end results are well worth the means.

    Also know that you do not have to suffer in silence. Almost everyone here has experienced something kin to what you have, if not the exact same thing. And regardless of our differences, almost everyone here will welcome you with open arms and try to help you work through it. My commission here, in addition to being a comfort to the broken-hearted... is to tell them the TRUTH about God and Christ. Not to BE the "truth"... but to "bear witness" to him, by means of the holy spirit that is in me. That gets on some folks' nerves, but... well, I gotta do what I gotta do, regardless. And it's not that bad; I "want" to. So...

    Do not concern yourself, then, that you have difficulty expressing yourself. Folks here "express" themselves ALL kinds of ways!! Some are more vocal... some are more "wordy"... some are more philosophical. Some are vulgar, and some are mean. But... none of us are "better" than any other. All of us are just trying to "be", whatever that means.

    I am glad that I was some bit of encouragement to you. You are NOT alone.

    May the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, JAH of Armies, and the peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH (sorry, yes, I still believe in God and Christ), be with you.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • dyan4help
    dyan4help

    AGuest,

    I have always seen the kindness in all of your comments that I have read on this board. Please know that you have personaly touched my heart with your words. Although I have lost my desire for organized religion I never lost faith in God or Christ. I believe in their existence. I am no longer sure what part God plays in mans life on earth or what he expects me to do. I no longer trust anything I have been taught in the bible because I am afraid of hanging onto something the witnesses twisted in their favor. My children are thrilled at not going to meetings anymore but sometimes say things about God and the bible that hurt my heart. I want to pass on to them a belief in God but I can't answer their question about what is going on in their world and why. How were you able to move on with your faith? I don't want to fall into another trap.

    Dyan

    I admire the strength of your belief.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Dyan... again, peace to you!

    You asked me how I was able to move on with my faith. Truly, my faith in God and Christ was NEVER dependent upon the Watchtower! Never! Almost the entire time I was "in", while I was obedient to them, I kept trying to "make sure" that THEY were obedient to God. And based on the Law Covenant, it appeared that they were. However, they spent SO much time teaching me the Law Covenent, and sloughing over the NEW one, that eventually something was going to come to "light", yes? Sooner or later.

    For me, then, I had the privilege of having them exposed to me, NOT because they had done some cruel, unloving thing to my family or a member thereof (which they had, many times... particularly with me, as I "professed" to be "anointed"). I figured, hey, they're imperfect. For me, though, it was my Lord himself that came to me and showed me things I had NOT seen, and told me that he would show me more... including the very "weeping and gnashing of their teeth." And all that he promised to show me, he did.

    My privilege came, though, Dyan, NOT because I am "special" (many folks here think I think that is the case...). It simply because I DIDN'T lose my faith: okay, so the WTBTS wasn't the "truth". By the time I realized that, I also realized that neither God, Christ or the Bible EVER said they WERE! But now, because they AREN'T, did that mean there was NO truth? I wasn't buying that. Truth was out there... and I still wanted to fine [it]. So... I asked God.

    In addition to asking him to show me the truth, I also asked Him at some point during a meeting, to let me know Christ. Why? Because it seemed to ME that if that One was the one whom I was to glorify, and the One who gave his life for me, and the One through whom salvation came, I needed to know HIM a little bit more. I mean, the WTBTS kept directing me to "Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah," yet, I kept reading that my SALVATION lied with Christ. Why wasn't he, then, given MORE attention, rather than the usual wash-over? I couldn't take it any longer... and so... I asked.

    Needless to say, I have since had revealed to me BY the Truth, that he IS the Truth... that Truth and the Son of God, Christ, are one and the same. And nothing has been the same for me since.

    I don't need a church or an organization to worship God, Dyan, because... I AM the "church". I am a member of the "Congregation of the Firstborn," which congregation is simply made up of people are who LIVING "stones"... in a house NOT "made with hands." A TRUE temple, to replace the former "visible" one that was rejected, when the "cornerstone" of the true one, my Lord, was "rejected."

    May I give you something to read that might help you? Thank you! John 14-16. Read all three chapters. Before you read, though, if you can, ask God to grant you a bit of His holy spirit, by means of Christ. He will do it, Dyan. All YOU need do is believe. (Luke 11:13) Then, as you read, try not to just read words but HEAR what the Spirit reads TO you! You will be amazed, I promise. Start there. Afterward, read the Psalms... in the same way. Ask for holy spirit... then LISTEN. Hear the voice that "guides" you as you read. After that, you won't need "scriptures" too much more often. Your need to "see" the law written will decrease... as you hear the Master himself "guide you into ALL truth." You will rely less and less on the "stone tablets"... and more and more on what he writes... on your heart. And you... will begin to transform and become "a new creation."

    Don't worry about what some folks here say: they are much like the WTBTS: they THINK they are rich and have acquired riches... but they don't know that they are truly blind... among other things. People get on me about what I "know" and I tell them, I "know" NOTHING! This is the TRUTH! I also tell them that all that I know, they, too, can know. But... apparently, they don't REALLY want it: they just want to belly-ache and lay blame. Well, okay, then... let their ignorance remain. It is not my concern. And it shouldn't be yours. Just "keep seeking" entry into the kingdom... and allowing the Way to enter into YOU... and you will get where you're trying to go. Here, and now.

    You also asked what part God plays in mans life on earth or what he expects you to do. It is VERY simple: God is only operable in the lives of those in His Covenant by means of Christ, those "in union" with Christ. And such "union" is shown at least two (2) ways: John 6:48-53... and my walking in Christ's footsteps CLOSELY. How does one do that? Love. Forgiving. Releasing. Having pity and compassion. Not closing your heart... or your hand to any who come to you or are "sent" to you... or you to them. Do you have to "convert" them? Did our Lord? Other than fleshly Israel proper? The Phoenician woman... what "requirement" did he have in order to show mercy to her daughter? The Army officer's servant? The Samaritan woman? None. He gave, helped, healed... because he WANTED to. And THAT is what we, too, must imitate. Love. TRUE love. That is all that God "requires" of us.

    But He requires it of us toward our ENEMIES... as well as our "brothers." For loving even one's enemies... THAT is "perfect" love. And THAT is what makes US "perfect." Matthew 5:43-48

    So, from time to time, Dyan, you will hear a voice directing you to do something, something loving, that you would not ordinarily do. For example, you might here a voice that says "That family needs food." You can return to your WTBTS thinking and say, "Well, they're not MY responsibility; I am not my brother's keeper and those folks aren't even my brothers." OR... you could simply say, "Yes, Lord," and do "just so". Where does faith come in here? Faith says you heard a voice, NOT your own, and it gave you direction. Faith says the direction is "good" and true. Faith says... you follow it, that voice, and its direction. You start out with something like that, something small. And it is small, for FAITH says that whatever such deed cost you, God, through Christ, will repay you. You KNOW this, so you don't worry about the cost. You don't worry about the recipient. You are doing the deed because God, through Christ, directed you to. Like building an ark: Noah heard a voice... and he obeyed.

    And as you obey that voice and do "just so"... you will hear more. The more you LISTEN... the more you HEAR. And what if the voice tells you to do something wrong, something heinous, like harm your children? Truly, if God is love, and Christ is the "exact representation" of God, how then could they tell you such a thing? No, it would HAVE to be another "spirit". And that, too, can be, for not all inspired expressions originate with God. So, you have to TEST the expression. How? By love: if it is loving, born of love, manifests love, builds love and results in love... it is from God. If, however, it is spiteful, mean, angry, contentious, hurtful, etc., it is NOT from God... and you should KNOW this. Why? Because we have the life of Christ recorded for us and he never did ANYTHING that was not born of "love". And again, since he is the "exact" representation of God... then all you need do is whatever it is that HE would do!

    What about Israel, you and others ask. And what about the nations He (God) annihilated. Sigh! Israel... was like Adam: stupid. Never heeded the WARNINGS! Never. Thought God a liar and so His warnings "weak". Ah, well... they found out different. In all cases, a warning was wrought. They were TOLD what would happened. And God is not to blame because they didn't believe it and put it to the test. Same thing with any parent who lays down rules, or warns their children of danger: "Don't do that because if you do, this is what will happen." In order for us as parents to be effective, whatever we say will occur MUST occur, if we are to keep our children's respect, as well as save their lives. If we run around saying, "Drug are bad and if you get involved in them, bad things could happen," but bad things NEVER happen... to anyone... eventually we lose credibility. It is the FACT that bad things DO happen, that many "smart" children save themselves a world of trouble. The warning was TRUE.

    Don't concern yourself overmuch. If you start by simply wanting to extent love, in every way that YOU can, JAH will be with you, through Christ. Your "vessel" will be such that they can "reside" within it, dwell in YOU. And you will grow in the spirit.

    I know this is a lot in a little bit of space/time... but I have given you what I have been directed. Eventually, you will receive what you need... directly from him. I am just a servant; he is the Master and it is to HIM that you must listen. My "commission" is to just cry out and try to wake folks up so that they CAN... and WILL... hear.

    May the undeserved kindess and mercy of my God and Father, the Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH... of Armies (Psalm 68:4), and the peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... be upon you... you and your entire household... if you so wish it.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

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