Judging Others (page 3)

Mac

makin' a list, checkin' it twice

gonna find out who's naughty or nice

mac of the without class class

animal

Oh ya.. I havent been drunk or high in years.... I am known as "One beer Rick" back east, since thats all I have when I am driving. I dont fit the movie stereotype, at least not anymore.

Also, my kids both rode since they were two.

Animal

AGuest

The fact is that we judge people every day and we have to, in order to survive and to be able to get along with others. We allseparate the sheep from the goats in our personal lives.

Actually, dear larc... peace to you and may I say that that is not true. "We" do not "all" judge people every day... or "separate the sheep from the goats" in our lives. "We"... who were TAUGHT to judge... tend to do that. However, there are MANY people in this world who were never taught... and many that have "unlearned" the practice. Why? Because what they learned instead... was to look at themselves... and themselves only.

Now, when someone tells someone the TRUTH, it may be CONSTRUED as "judging." For example, if you commit murder, and I say to you, "You, larc, are a murderer"... have I judged you? Or have I merely stated a truth? If you plotted to take the life of another for your own personal gain, whatever that may be, and indeed took such life, you have committed murder. And that makes you a "murderer". I did not make the label/description. A thief is one who steals. You steal... you are a "thief". Period.

On the other hand, if I say to you, "You, larc, are a murderer and you deserve to/will die for your murder"... THEN... I have judged you. Or if I, while being a thief myself, judge and/or condemn you for stealing, then I am a HYPOCRITE, which even worse.

Calling a spade... a spade... is not a judgment. JUDGING and/or CONDEMNING a spade for BEING a spade... is judging. And judging and/or condemning a spade for being a spade, when in fact you, too, are a spade, is hypocrisy.

So, whatever it is that you are... or do... in life... I personally consider that your choice... and do not judge you. For who am I to judge? It does not belong to me. I leave it, then, with regard to all, either to those who think it does belong to them... or the One to whom it truly does.

Again, I bid you peace.

YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,

SJ

Edited by - AGuest on 13 October 2002 11:7:54

Edited by - AGuest on 13 October 2002 11:8:34

Edited by - AGuest on 13 October 2002 11:11:31

larc

AGuest, I understand your point. I think what you are saying that we should suspend a moral evaluation of other's behavior, as only God can know the heart and the circumstancesof a person, even of a muderer. That might be reasonable on a spiritual plane. I was referring to everyday life. We do make judgements and have to. When we decide who to marry, when to discipline our child, who to promote at work, we are making judgements. In your example of murder, only God could be the ultimate judge. Nonetheless, society has to make the practical judgement as to what to do with the murderer. I hope this has clarified my point of view.

AGuest

Hey, there, larc... and peace to you, again!

Yes, I understand your point. May I ask you, though, in the hopes of clarifying for those good folks who sometimes get confused when we, earthling man, explain things our own way...

Is making a decision, based on our ability to DISCERN... the same thing as JUDGING?

It may seem to some that the two words are interchangeable, but that is only because, again, of a mistransliteration that occurs when you translate the meaning of a word from one language... to another.

I make decisions daily... for myself, and many others. And I have to "weigh" options, true. But is it my need/desire to JUDGE that results in my decision? Or my ability to discern which is (or seems to be) the better course?

Please excuse my position here: I am just tired of folks being misled because of their lack of understanding as to words... and their true meanings. It is how the WT and those like them mislead. They will give you an explanation for or definition of something that is entirely untrue, and based solely on THEIR understanding and perception of what it means... rather than the truth. And all one really needs to do to under this, at least with regard to them, is look up words... their roots... and their origins. Do not take every word rendered in English... as a true rendering. In light of the languages of the world, English as WE know it (and particularly American English), is a relative "infant."

Which is one of the reasons why SO many have difficulty understanding what is written in the Bible, even if it is a "Living" or "New American" or whathaveyou... version.

Again, I bid you peace.

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SJ

larc

AGuest, you make an important distinction. Often we use judgement and decision making interchangebly. Sometimes this is appropriate; sometimes it is not. For example, if I was deciding who to promote, I would weigh a person's strengths and weaknesses, to determine if there is a good job fit. This is a judgement call, but not a moral judgement. I am not making a moral judgement regarding the person's strengthts and weaknesses. Perhaps, we should make a distinction between moral judgements and every day routine judgement. Now, with said, I understand your position to be, that we should never make moral judgements. I am not sure where I stand on this. On a high plane of thinking, that my be the ideal, but it seems like it is pretty hard to do. For example, I may read some research about why pedophiles become that way, and understand it on a cognitive level, but on a emotional level in is hard for me and most people not to make a moral judgement.

DJ

Hi guys,

Here's my view. I don't think Judging is involved when you are simply discerning right from wrong. Of course child molestation is wrong and the molester is wrong. The issue about judging is not included here at all to me. Judging is a spiritual issue and is not up to humans. However, jugding that an act is wrong is within our duty as humans. Hate the sin but love the sinner is the best way to express this.

Hmmm....Motorcyle helmets, well.....given the fact that my husband nearly died in a bike accident 7 years ago. I have my opinion about helmets! I think that it is unwise not to wear one. The rider must not only take into account how he feels about the helmet BUT he must also try to be responsible in the decision with regard to his family. I think that it is inconsiderate and selfish not to think that it is only a helmet and if it could help protect you then it is wiser to wear it. If not for the sake of the rider, then atleast for the sake of your spouse and children. I view a helmet the same way that I view a seatbelt. You are free to choose not to wear a seatbelt (in some states) but is is wiser if you do wear it. Simple as that............I'm a bit weary of hearing about the big mouths with their rights with regard to helmets. Wear it or not but don't try to make it legal to act irresponsibly. Laws are in place for our protection in most instances. Helmets and seatbelts fall into that category because unfortunately, some folks aren't wise enough to just do it. Dj

animal

Here is a great example of howone word can show judgementalism:

DJ said:

"I think that it is inconsiderate and selfish not to think that it is only a helmet and if it could help protect you then it is wiser to wear it. If not for the sake of the rider, then atleast for the sake of your spouse and children. I view a helmet the same way that I view a seatbelt. You are free to choose not to wear a seatbelt (in some states) but is is wiser if you do wear it. Simple as that............I'm a bit weary of hearing about the big mouths with their rights with regard to helmets. Wear it or not but don't try to make it legal to act irresponsibly. Laws are in place for our protection in most instances. Helmets and seatbelts fall into that category because unfortunately, some folks aren't wise enough to just do it."

I understand her to be saying that anyone choosing to take charge of thier own safety is inconsiderate and selfish, not wise, have big mouths, and she is weary of it. While this is her opinion and she has every right to have it, it is judgemental... right or wrong.

Animal

DJ

Animal,

I know that you have had involement with A.B.A.T.E. right? That's fine, you are so entitled. I have known several members myself.

I think that it is inconsiderate if you are not willing to take responsibility for your family's feelings. If they have no problem with it then that is all you need to concern yourself with. IMO!

You guys do whine and you know it. Wouldn't it be a better decision to have a law ibn place for the sake of the 18 yr.old who started to ride and hasn't fully considered the helmet pros and cons. Isn't it better if the law attempts to protect this kid? Seatbelts are same thing!! Do you wear your seatbelt? Do you balk at that law as well? It is the same thing.

I am of the opinion that it is an unwise choice. I am not spiritually judging you. That's absurd.

animal

Not being a spiritual person, I couldnt look at being judged as "spiritual"... we are discussing day to day judging, via our words. This isnt a helmet debate, tho I am up for it elsewhere. I was showing how you, or anyone, can wear thier judgements on thier sleeve, by what you write. You do, I try not to.

Animal

Judging Others

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