They were able to test the spirits
No Questions, No Answers!
by bjc2012 48 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
Smitty
Hi BJC2012. I only need one thing to verify a prophets validity. Deuteronomy 18:22
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
The WT showed us many twisted scriptures. We went for it because they knew more about the scriptures than we did. MDS knows more about the scriptures than we do also. One can easily twist the scriptures to go over ones head, but will Jehovah back it up? That's the question you should grapple with. Case in point:
MDS taught Saddam Hussein was the king of the north in 1990 during the gulf war. And the "Mother of all Battles" was the great one mentioned in the book of Daniel. How can you say he's a true prophet??? He can preach all he wants, Jehovah will never support him. He's been revealed as a false prophet. He can't be used now.
Did MDS not teach this to his followers in 1990? Was the gulf war not to be the Great War? Was not Saddam taught to be the "King of the North" ?? Answer this BJC. Tell us about 1990.
Do you need more reminders.
Smitty
Edited by - smitty on 18 October 2002 9:51:39
-
logical
Smitty,
Were you another of MDS's victims?
As for the bible, I give up with that. Too much has been added, altered and deleted so that men can ease their conciences doing evil things, who is to know what and what not is true scripture in that book. (and BJC, you know full well this is true, so why do you put so much blind faith into a things that deep down you know could be wrong?)
There is one thing that is for sure, try to love people and forgive people, try not to hate or do bad stuff to people. Whats the point in memorising and applying vague events to vague bible verses that may not even be true scripture, when you could be doing other things that are more beneficial for others.
Surely, if we search for spiritual enlightenment, then THAT is where we will find it, spiritually, not in material MAN written MAN tampered with books. But on our spiritual hearts. If we truly wish to be, we can eventually be living for God by doing good to others. Im not saying we can go straight out and do it, as humans are selfish creatures and wll never be perfect in the flesh, but with time we can be better people. Which is PRECISELY why we need the ransom of Christ, because we are imperfect, because we never will attain perfection.
All this studying and stuff is rather pointless as apart from gaining knowledge, what good does it do for you or your neighbour? If you really want to live for God go out and help the homeless, feed the hungry, clothe the naked. Reading the bible 24/7 dont do any of that does it?
-
Smitty
Hi Logical. I'm familiar with the group that was originally formed with MDS and BJC. I also studied his material on my own. His first following (1990) was quite sizable and collectively found several scriptural jewels. But once they saw where it was leading, nowhere, they split. Even today they say he's waiting on a WAR. When the Gulf War didn't prove to be the Big One, they knew he was another doomsayer .
Smitty
Edited by - smitty on 18 October 2002 21:23:52
-
bjc2012
Smitty,
The only reason I am posting to you is to inform others who wish to know more about our message.
Smitty, if MDS actually taught that type of garbage about Saddam H. and the "Gulf War", I'd be right in there with you calling him a false prophet. But MDS has never ever taught such absolute nonsense.
I have been with MDS from the beginning. The movement STARTED in 1991. That has been stated on this board many, many times so its a matter of public record. MDS and I left the JWs movement in Spring of 1991 together.
We have never, ever taught anything about the year of 1990 and a war coming at that time. If memory serves me right, the "Gulf War" you mentioned above started in January of 1991, long before we even left the JW Organization. MDS and I were active JWs at that time, foolishly following the WTS and out teaching their false doctrines from door-to-door at that time. In other words, Smitty, the "Gulf War" had started and was over, BEFORE we could leave the JW Organization!!!
So either you have never read his early material and are terribly misinformed, or you are maliciously lying and fabricating thoughts.
We released the book, "The Report", in 1994, of which, many, many people on this board have a copy. The book tells what we believe. Namely, JWs are modern-day Israel in captivity to the WTS, Babylon the Great, and are in need of a special "release" by God. (Rev. 9:13, 14)
In fact, MDS has taught from the beginning, that 1991 (spring) was the beginning of the "FIRST WOE", a spiritual attack upon the Governing Body itself, alone. The TWMC group believed itself to be a part of that particular bible fulfillment. A special 5-month plague on the Governing Body of JWs. (Rev. 9:1-12) We knew then, the "Great War" of Daniel 10:1 was in the future. And in Volume II of "The Report" it shows this clearly. If you had read this, you would know how we see the tie-in with the "White Horse" activity with the "Red Horse" activity of Revelation 6th chapter, and how this affects the JW Organization. Now, Smitty, we had that information from the beginning, some of it even before we left the organization. And everybody associated with this movement knew that did not teach anything about a War supposed occurring in the early 1990s period.
So I think you have confused us with some OTHER group.
Again, you will find that we mentioned that fact many times in posts on this discussion board. As well as the relationship of the "Fiery-colored" Red Horse (War) and after its resulting aftermath upon JWs worldwide as a international organization. Volume II of the "Report" discusses this in detail.
In fact, there are many people around who are familiar with what we taught in the early years, so I'd have to say you are greatly mistaken or have mixed us up with some other group. (There was a group in Canada that fits the description of what you said above, and the timing is about right. I am familiar with that particular group and what they taught, but was never a part of it.) Of course I know about the group called TWMC, and know exactly what we taught since I was there when it was formed in Spring of 1991.
On a more personal basis, you addressed none of the points I mentioned in my last post to you. Which tells me, you are not really interested in discussing scriptural matters, but only arguing and accusing. Therefore, I do not have any more time to waste here on this thread. Its clear to me, you are not interested in our message but only in arguing and mindlessly accusing people for no reason. And a whole lot of fabricating and spreading lies without trying to truly obtain the facts before hand.
So you are not someone in whom I wish to communicate anymore on this thread or on this discussion board.
Now on the other hand, if in the future you have a change of heart (because I know people do change), or seek to understand something scripturally about what we teach in the future, then in that case, I would be open to a rational discussion of the matter. My email is open.
But, the first place we are going to start is,
WHO IS THE MYSTERY "CHIEFTAIN" of Ezekiel 44:1-3, 45:22, 46:16, 17?
What -- did you think I was going to forget you dodged the issue again?
A little humility would help you and a few others here following this thread, I think.
No, you don't know about the "Mystery Chieftain", and many others here don't know either. Thus, my point exactly when I started this thread and its title.
As I said before and I will say it again, you have only to wait another 6 months of so, and then we will know for sure, whether what MDS teaches is from God, or he is teaching a man-made message. Spring of 2003 will tell the story. (John 7:17)
But, the "Great War" is something you will probably NOT have to wait for much longer for. Smitty, terrible War is ahead, in fulfillment of Revelation 6:4. And with that realization, finally, we will all find out, just who is the "King of the North" that is foretold to overrun a spiritually low "Land of decoration", BEFORE it becomes an exalted "Mountain of Decoration" in God's eyes. -- Daniel 11:40-45
Let's just wait and see. Okay?
bjc
Edited by - bjc2012 on 19 October 2002 10:23:51
Edited by - bjc2012 on 19 October 2002 10:38:49
Edited by - bjc2012 on 19 October 2002 10:59:28
-
Smitty
Okay BJC. I'm going to do you a favor. We'll put this thing on a public time-line for all to keep up with Okay? Let's get this straight first.
1) What is to happen for us to see in 6 months? Let's keep it simple and concise.
2) What magnitude of a war are we waiting for before these 6 months is up and how long will it last? Just another attack or a war greater than World War I & II ??
3) And what will happen to the WT in this 6 months period.
Remember simple and concise Okay?
After you post your answers I'll start a thread to monitor MDS's predictions. This way all will see true or not. Okay? Simple and concise, now.
P.S.- no need to refer to me or others as stupid or cronies. It really reflects badly of oneself when that's done. So, let's stay kind and polite. Just a suggestion.
Smitty
Edited by - smitty on 20 October 2002 8:2:13
-
link
I am full of admiration for people who are confident enough to put their views and opinions on the Bible up for scrutiny. I wish I could do the same and I always read these threads with interest.
However whenever I hear former Jehovahs Witness' claiming to have found "the truth" about Bible prophesy - then I hear bells and see flashing lights.
Does any one else get that "deja vu" feeling or is it just me?
link
-
onacruse
link, I agree. I used to find such elaborate investigations intriguing, and though I could wade right on in with all kinds of "stuff," I much prefer:
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID
Craig
-
Cicatrix
Hi Bjc,
I considered what you had to say, but you lost me at the responsibility for being ignorant part.
Maybe because I was always "at fault" and always missed the mark according to the JWs.
I may be ignorant, but I will continue to search. Just not very much right now, because it still hurts.
Respectfully,
Cicatrix
-
bjc2012
Smitty you said,
I'm familiar with the group that was originally formed with MDS and BJC. I also studied his material on my own. His first following (1990) was quite sizable and collectively found several scriptural jewels. But once they saw where it was leading, nowhere, they split. Even today they say he's waiting on a WAR. When the Gulf War didn't prove to be the Big One, they knew he was another doomsayer .
also,
MDS taught Saddam Hussein was the king of the north in 1990 during the gulf war. And the "Mother of all Battles" was the great one mentioned in the book of Daniel.
Produce the "proof" that MDS said this.
If not, you are a liar.
bjc
Edited by - bjc2012 on 20 October 2002 8:52:22