No Questions, No Answers!

by bjc2012 48 Replies latest watchtower bible

bjc2012

To "Link":
I didn't say I knew ALL of the "Truth", did I? I could see a person being a litle leary of someone saying that. So please go back and check what I said. We get "all truth" from the "Spirit of the Truth" as it "guides us into ALL TRUTH", so the Bible says. And I'm certainly NOT the "spirit of the truth". I make no such claim. -- John 16:13
To "Onacruise":
...I agree. I used to find such elaborate investigations intriguing, and though I could wade right on in with all kinds of "stuff," I much prefer: Keep It Simple.
I can appreciate where you are coming from. But please consider this.
Ezekiel 44:1-3 which speaks about God's "Chieftain, who eats bread in God's Presence" IS SIMPLE. So what's complicated or "elaborate" about it?
When we think about it, the study of God's "Chieftain" is NOT an "elaborate investigation" after all. No but it simply is a integral part of holy prophecy which mankind continually and consistently OVERLOOKS. Mankind does it deliberate too, just as many are doing on this discussion board. But really, there is nothing "elaborate" about it. It is quite simple in fact.
The "Chieftain" prophecy has been there, in the book of Ezekiel, right there in bold print for everyone's eyes to see for the past 2,500 years. No can deny that. But is anybody trying to "UNDERSTAND" it. Now, that's the question.
So, that being the case, I think its high time we started learning something from Holy Scripture, and quit "dancing around" holy prophecy. (I'm not talking about you personally, but mankind in general.) That's why we don't learn anything and we keep going in circles. We, in all good conscience, choose, that's choose to OVERLOOK things we shouldn't. And then we say, "I don't understand the Bible." But I say, we are the ones at fault, if we "skip over" these powerful prophetic thoughts of God. Then, the picture will always be INCOMPLETE, as long as we continue to "skip over" important details of scripture. And that is what we have done in the past, and that is what we continue to do, mankind in general I'm am speaking of. We have become "skip over" experts. No wonder we don't understand anything. How can we learn anything if we keep this "skip-over-important-verses-in-the-bible" stuff up?
I say, its just not "gonna happen" people. We're not gonna get "Divine Understanding". Simple.
The real truth is, the "Chieftain" information is vital, extremely important. And we simply can't skip over it any longer folks, if we ever, ever expect to "understand" the bible. Even the WTS, made this mistake, as have so many other religions. It seems, everybody who claims to be "christian" is "guilty" of doing this.
Therefore, I think its high time we start making a serious effort to truly come to understand God's "Divine Will" and stated purposes in scripture, as written. No more "skipping over" verses, (Like the WTS did when they wrote the "Know Jehovah" book on the contents of Ezekiel wherein whole chapters of Ezekiel was conspicuously not commented upon. This is truly unforgiveable.) And the information about God's "Chieftain" is a certainly and without a doubt, a very good place to start. We have to do this, in all good conscience, BEFORE we conclude the Bible is such a wondrous paradox, and God hasn't done HIS JOB and provided for mankind. When the truth be told, actually God has provided. But the problem is, we have "skipped over" his provision, which has led to UNTOLD problems and difficulties in understanding His "Divine Will" for mankind.
Therefore, I'd say God really has "kept it simple", as you suggest. Because He is using the same M.O. or mode of operation, that He has, for the past 6,000 years. It is simple and God keeps it that way. It is mankind who always tries to complicate the matter, by OVERLOOKING important details of His Stated Will. Let me explain.
This is the "Bible Research" Forum. Therefore, all of us should be "searching" for truth.
However, most people here, actually think of the Bible as being a message that is BEYOND human understanding or comprehension. An INCOMPREHENSIBLE message from God. A book which is IMPOSSIBLE for one to understand. We think that the message from God presents a formidable "paradox WITHOUT a reasonable solution", a great mystery BEYOND the scope of mankind. But this is NOT true.
Instead of thinking the Bible is a "paradox" beyond our scope, we should think, the Bible is a "Sacred Secret". God's Religious Secret that He has held tightly in His Hand for a purpose, UNTIl the designated person arrives to dispense His knowledge. And, in the meantime while we are waiting, we should always note the "details" that are unexplained, knowing a plausible, reasonable, understandable "explanation" will surface and God will have provided as usual. That should be our attitude of the matter. We should know, and fully expect God to send us the designated person, the "Chieftain" of Ezekiel 44:1-3. And then, and only then, will be rightly expect God to release the tightly held sacred information, that He has up to this time, wisely kept privy only to Himself. At that time, we should expect, the sacred information of God, to be released, at God's discretion. Its release comes at the designated time foretold in scripture, "in the final part of the days" when "Israel" is in "great distress". -- See Jeremiah 23:20; 30:7-9, 24.
So God has kept it simple. God simply releases His sacred "understanding" of His purposes, by way of the "Chieftain". He grants true "understanding" of His Will to this chosen one. It is God's choice, God's Chosen One. And we should expect the Bible to speak openly about this one. And it does. His role is to explain things, as we would expect of a coming "messiah", like Jesus. (John 4:25) This one is spoken of in God's "scroll". But the holy "scroll" is held in God's Hands only. So since the "scroll" is held tight within His Grasp, as Revelation 5:1 shows, everything is proceeds according to God's discretion. And the holy "seals" on this "scroll, "seals up" the bible. This holy "scroll" has upon it, seven "seals" or seven (7) great, cataclysmic events untold to mankind that blocks "understanding" of God's Sacred Purposes. 7 unrevealed truths which work to "seal" the Bible up, until Jehovah the Almighty gets ready to reveal these things. 7 "religious secrets" of God. After all, Jehovah God is the "Great Revealer" of Secrets. -- Daniel 2:47
So since this is the case, God keeps his Religious Secrets to Himself until, until its time to reveal these powerful events as "religious secrets" or "Sacred Secrets" to the "Chieftain". God "grants understanding" to his Chosen One, the "Chieftain" as depicted in Ezekiel 44:1-3 "eating bread" in God's Holy Presence. In turn, the "Chieftain" reveals it to mankind, but to spiritual "Israel" [JWs] first. This Divine Pattern, was first established by Jesus Christ as revealed in Matthew 10:6 and Matthew 13:11.
Other verses back this up. For example, Revelation 6:2 shows this. The "Chieftain" is revealed as the rider of the mysterious "white horse" who receives a "crown" of favor from God, in these last days. He is also shown in scripture to be "Shiloh", who is supposed to show up "in the final part of the days". -- Gen. 49:1, 10
So then the "plan" is quite simple as Amos 3:7 shows, this is God's designated M.O. [modus operande], His pattern of operation. As stated above, the "Chieftain" is allowed to "eat bread" in the Holy Presence of the Almighty, in His Future Temple in fact. A "Temple" that was previously abandoned by God for becoming guilty of committing "fornication" with its filthy, disgraceful "king's" activity. These worthless "kings" [Governing Body of JWs] are the ones who presumptuously "put their doorposts" right up beside "God's doorpost" and caused the Temple to be "defiled" in God's eyes. Now the Temple must be "purified" before God will come near them again. (Ezekiel 43:22-27) A "defiled" Temple that now, because of spiritual "fornication" being committed by the "kings" [G.B. UN/NGO Disaster], that now has to be cleansed and "purified" before God would accept them again. As Ezekiel says of this new Temple Arrangement, "This is the law of the House...all around is something most holy. Look! This is the law of the House." In other words, Jehovah is primarily interested in this "House" being kept dutifully "Holy", spiritually clean, in His sight, before He will deal with them again. -- See Ezekiel 43:7-12.
Simple.
And to set this whole stage of events for us, dutifully Almighty God reveals His "confidential matters" to this foretold designated person, who fully carries out God's Will toward wayward "Israel" [JWs]. He becomes the "Servant" of God; the one God "chooses" for this work. -- Isaiah 49:1-7
So God chooses the "Chieftain", who then despenses the "knowledge" to the deserving ones of "Israel" first. The ones God has chosen. Therefore, the "kingdom of God", becomes repatriated, restored "Israel". The ones that are restored from apostasy to God's favor. The spiritual nation of Israel [JWs]. And that means, we today who accept God's arrangement for peace, we who accept Ezekiel's "Chieftain", restored Israel, become the "kingdom of God", reborn on earth, the kingdom that we have all waiting for all of this time. God's Kingdom is now, upon earth, where God "dwells" forever and ever. In other words, we as "Jehovah's Witnesses" become the long-awaited "Temple" Arrangement that had to be pulled up from spiritual "fornication", because of the disgraceful sins of the Governing Body of Jehovan's Witnesses, but later will have the inestimatable privilege to have God Almighty Himself "reside in the midst of the sons of Israel to TIME INDEFINITE". -- Ezekiel 43:7-9; 48:35
So the story does have a happy ending, after all.
This is a blessing, if we can "see" the whole picture. We can today become the holy, blessed "arrangement" of God. But first, we must come to understand the role of the "Chieftain". Again, keeping it simple. We must come to understand the "Chieftain" is the one that God invites to "eat bread" in His lofty presence, the only one. And he will provide proper directions for us, Israel. Israel can recovery from spiritual disaster, only if they accept the spiritual help from the "Chieftain", and thus benefit fully from this horrible WTS "experience". This is our only, only way out. -- Ezekiel 44:1-3; Daniel 2:34, 35, 44
I hope this helps.
bjc
Edited by - bjc2012 on 20 October 2002 15:14:47
Edited by - bjc2012 on 20 October 2002 15:26:44
Edited by - bjc2012 on 20 October 2002 16:56:50
Edited by - bjc2012 on 20 October 2002 17:42:6
Edited by - bjc2012 on 20 October 2002 19:2:12
Smitty

Good thinking BJC. Get off the topic and avoid the challenge I made. End of conversation.
Smitty
bjc2012

Hi Cicatrix,
Hi Bjc, I considered what you had to say, but you lost me at the responsibility for being ignorant part...I may be ignorant, but I will continue to search. Just not very much right now, because it still hurts.
I "feel" your pain. I've been there, really. But as along as you continue to "search", you will win. -- Matt. 7:7, 8, 14
However on the question of "ignorance", we must remember Paul spoke of a special kind of "ignorance" at 1 Corinthians 14:38. This special type of "ignorance" must be avoided since it is "willful", and self-induced. Remember, the heart is "treacherous" and "desperate...who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9) So "willful ignorance" on our parts must be avoided at all costs. Notice the comment I made to "Onacruise" which is quoted below:
"...Therefore, I think its time that we make a serious effort to truly come to an understanding of God's Will and stated purposes in scripture, as written. No more "skipping over" verses" (like the WTS did when they wrote the "Know Jehovah" book on the contents of Ezekiel). And of course, the information about God's "Chieftain" (Ezekiel 44:1-3) is a good place to start. We have to do this, in all good conscience, BEFORE we conclude the Bible is such a wondrous paradox, and God hasn't done HIS JOB and provided for mankind. When the truth be told, actually God has provided. But the problem is, we have "skipped over" his provision, which has led to UNTOLD problems and difficulties in understanding His Will for mankind."
If we do the above, we are "willingly ignorant". -- 2 Peter 3:5 KJV
That was my point. Hope this helps.
Peace,
bjc
Edited by - bjc2012 on 20 October 2002 18:44:32
Edited by - bjc2012 on 20 October 2002 19:5:49
bjc2012

Smitty,
Please read above message to you.
Thanks,
bjc
bjc2012

WT/JW SPIRITUAL "FORNICATION" BY INTERFAITH INVOLVEMENT! (Ezekiel 43:7, 8)
Please take note below:
Virginia Holocaust Museum 4 p.m. to 5:30 p.m., 2000 E. Cary St. Interfaith service for the museum's "new home for tolerance" will mark the dedication for the museum's new Shockoe Bottom home. Some of the scheduled speakers are Lt. Gov. and former Richmond Mayor Timothy M. Kaine, and Jay M. Ipson, a holocaust survivor and chairman and co-founder of the museum. Representatives from the Islamic Center, the Catholic Diocese and Jehovah's Witnesses will also take part. (804) 257-5400 or www.va-holocaust.com.
Please see this link (below) under specifically "Wednesday's" Ceremonies:
http://www1.richmond.com/output.cfm?ID=2161158&CFID=568503&CFTOKEN=77338460
They did say, "Interfaith Service", did they not? The Lt. Governor of the State of Virginia was a guest speaker. And the former Mayor of Richmond was also invited to speak. And who else will participate? Why, Jehovah's Witnesses are also said to have taken a part in the "interfaith service" along with representatives from the "Islamic Center" and the "Catholic Diocese", as of Sept. 11, 2002.
Hmmmmmm.
Jehovah spoke of this day by saying,
"In that day, is the utterance of Jehovah, I shall strike every horse with bewilderment and its rider with madness; ... and every horse of the peoples I shall strike with loss of sight." -- Zechariah 12:4
What you have read above is absolute proof Almighty God "strikes" His WTS enemy down with spiritual "madness", "bewilderment", and " and "loss of sight". Who would have ever believed we would see the type of things we are seeing today!
The WTS has gone over the deep end. No question.
Please read the following quote from the "Pay Attention To Yourselves..." Elder handbook. Of course, many thanks to "Elsewhere" for providing this information on the Main Board for us to consider. You can see it and what many other have to say about it under the thread entitled: "The WTS Has Disassociated Itself" found at:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=39013&site=3
But I just want to "borrow" it to make my point on this specific thread.
"Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock"
UNIT 5 (1 )
Apostasy.
Apostasy is a standing away from, a falling away, defec-
tion, rebellion, abandonment; it involves teaching false
doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its
holidays or interfaith activities. (Deut. 13:13, 15; Josh.
22:22, ftn.; Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 Cor. 6:14, 15, 17, 18;
2. John 7, 9, 10; Rev. 18:4)
If it is learned that a person has taken up association with
another religious organization, the matter should be inves-
tigated, and if verified, a committee should be formed.
If it is clearly established that the person has joined another
religion and intends to remain with it, the elders would make
a brief announcement to the congregation that suchone has
disassociated himself. (w86
10/15 p. 31 )
Nuff said.
bjc
Edited by - bjc2012 on 20 October 2002 22:12:1
Edited by - bjc2012 on 20 October 2002 22:13:57
Smitty

MDS's October 7th 2001 prophecy:
October 7, 2001 -- A Date of "Infamy" For All Jehovah's Witnesses Earthwide
Upcoming "Events" & The "Great Tribulation" Upon Mystery "Israel" -- Jeremiah 30:7; Matthew 24:21, 22; Rev. 7:14
The Bible makes a number of serious "predictions" about the future of mystery "Israel," ... whom I propose to be Jehovah's Witnesses of our time. (I realize that many will object to such an assumption...smile). However, in this treatise, it will be explained, exactly why this is so and why Jehovah's Witnesses are to be understood as mystery "Israel" of Bible prophecy.
Still, I propose Bible prophecy speaks about God's dealings with them, now and in the future. For example it speaks of the coming fate of "Israel," how they fare, in the future days ahead, because of being led by wicked men, spiritual "rebels" against God...those who will (in the days ahead) succumb to "smooth words" of "apostasy" against God. -- Daniel 8:23 NIV; Daniel 11:32 NWT
The Bible predicts the sudden and unexpected uprising of a mysterious "king of the North" who comes into power by "intrigue." He is a "master of intrigue" as the NIV's rendering of Daniel 8:23 shows.
His coming into power by surprise, even "intrigue" and his subsequent and unforeseen "bearing down" in spiritual OPPRESSION of mystery "Israel" are surely in the days shortly ahead for us. To be sure, "trustworthy words" have spoken of it...predicted it. -- Isa. 55:10, 11; Rev. 22:6 (NIV)
That surprise spiritual OPPRESSION & PERSECUTION upon mystery "Israel" of Bible prophecy, will become a totally unexpected period for God's Name People of intense persecution, in what the Bible calls the "Great Tribulation"...a limited and specific period of time...followed by a specific period of time of disgrace, shame and ignominy. -- Matthew 24;21, 22; Revelation 7:14; 11:8-10
Thus, the "Great Tribulation" is actually upon God's Chosen People...it is fully upon them, solely by design. It will be used to fully "refine" God's Name People. It comes first upon God's Name People, and it is clearly ahead of us, as events that are described in Daniel 11:41...a scripture that the WTS consistently refuses to see, acknowledge or explain to their brotherhood.
But we remember, "Judgment" always "begins" with the "House of God," those "bearing His Name." Always...whether they expect it or not. -- See Jer. 25:29 (NIV); 1 Peter 4:17 NWT
How Events Unfold For Mystery "Israel"
We remember Daniel 11:40 speaks of a "pushing" made by the "King of the South." Per WT publications, the "pushing" action we remember was suppose to describe the "cold war" events FOLLOWING World War II or 1945. A position that JWs have maintained for many years. The "pushing" of the "King of the South" occurs AFTER 1945...these are Events since that time...right?
So, what does Daniel 11:40, 41 say happens next, right after the "pushing" of the "King of the South"?
"...the king of the North will STORM with chariots and with horsemen and with many ships; and he will certainly enter into the lands and flood over and pass through. He will also actually enter into the land of the Decoration, and there will be many ***[notice: "lands"]***that will be made to stumble..." -- NWT
So after the "pushing"...real WAR occurs!
But what is the WTS' position, their "explanation" of this apparent situation? What is it?
Please consult the WTS' publications...
You will see there is none.
Thus, lack of explanation for Daniel 11:40, 41, the ignoring of this powerful part of Bible prophecy will indeed cost mystery "Israel" terribly, terribly.
This is an overt mistake...but allowed by Divine Providence for a reason...refinement.
If we were to check our bound volumes of WTS publications on this scripture for commentary on Daniel 11:40 & 41, we will clearly see a SERIOUS mistake has been made, a scripture totally OVERLOOKED. You may be astonished to find out the WTS simply does not explain it at all.
Check w84 4/1 pages 17-19; w81 7/15 page 6...and of course the new publication "Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy" pages 277, 278.
After checking, you will see there is no explanation for the "storming" of the "king of the North" as retaliation for the "pushing" of the "King of the South." And after that particular "storming" and "flooding" over his enemies... his stampeding thru the "land of decoration," (mystery "Israel") -- supposedly the "holy estate" of Jehovah's Witnesses according to the WTS.
As mentioned above, Verse 41 of Daniel 11th chapter, is translated as "many [lands] are stumbled" when the "king of the North" comes thru the "land of Decoration." But we notice the words "lands" are inserted, as they are not there in the original Hebrew text. It is an "inserted" word by some Bible translators, including the WTS' "New World Translation" itself.
This proves to be a serious mistake of no little magnitude.
It opens the doors for the "Great Tribulation" itself, coming upon mystery "Israel." A terrible, intense period of persecution heaped upon "Israel," and limited (on account of the "chosen ones" Jesus said Matt. 24:22) to "42 months" of dominance, intimidation followed by a distinct period of humiliation and disgrace. It is clearly, God allowed... God ordained upon mystery "Israel", God's Name People...the reason he, the King of the North, is ALLOWED, PERMITTED, to "blaspheme" or "slander" God's Personal Name. -- Daniel 7:25; Romans 2:24; Rev. 11:8-10; 13:5-7
To set the stage for these terrific events, the Bible forecasts a "Great War" ahead for this world. (See Dan. 10:1 NIV) During this period or "Great War," also known as the "Ride of the Red (Fiery-colored) Horse" and "Horseman" of Revelation 6:4, the WTS will make another terrible, unforgiveable "mistake" in judgment, a misreading of this "Great War" situation. During the "Great War" of Daniel 10:1 (NIV), the WTS will presume that this, and the unprecendent Great Destruction and carnage resulting from this "War," surely leads to "Armageddon," and the destruction of all human governments upon earth today. They will surely believe this.
Thus, we have arrived at the core of this "critical" situation.
Yes, the WTS actually, unwittingly, "seizes the moment." They can be confidently expected to foolishly "seize the opportunity", the "Great War", and "milk" the situation for "all its worth." Ignorant, uninformed, followers will "eat it up." We can count on it.
Even today, we see attitudes for "building up" of such an attitude, already among the flock of JWs. We see this now!
Therefore, during the "Great War" shortly ahead, the WTS will foolishly and unwittingly PROCLAIM SUCH TO THE WORLD, and to the flock.
This "MISTAKE," this foolish blunder in judgment, will prove to be fatal for them, and will virtually (though not completely) put them "out of business" as the self-proclaimed, "spirit-directed", but yet, non-inspired, "prophets" before God and mankind. -- Zechariah 13:4-6
This is because the Bible reveals the "Great War," WILL NOT lead to "Armageddon," at all as expected...no, no but to an TOTALLY UNEXPECTED, an UNanticipated period of PEACE. Peace," yes, "peace," between nations...peace, AFTER the "Great War." In other words, the "Sword-stroke," the "death-stroke" upon the "head" of one particularly "beastly" figure who has engaged himself in war, will indeed, "BE HEALED." Suddenly...quickly. It is an unexpected event to many. -- Revelation 13:3, 12, 14
And immediately after such "peace" is proclaimed, yes "peace and security" is proclaimed by mankind in general -- the terrible, terrible "trampling of Jerusalem" of period of "42 months" begins immediately, without warning upon spiritual "Israel." The "Great Tribulation" now begins upon mystery "Israel" as a form of discipline...something the spiritual nation does not expect at all...these leaders are "revealed" as "sons of darkness." The "Man of Lawlessness." -- 1 Thess. 5:1-4
Mystery "Israel," is completely "dumbfounded", speechless. The WTS is found to be truly "false prophets" and everyone can see it. They have been silenced, they are "dumbfounded", speechless.
"...and the people of earth, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life before the world began, WILL BE DUMBFOUNDED [Greek: "Thaumos"] at his REAPPEARANCE after beng dead." -- Revelation 17:8 The Living Bible
Therefore, during this unexpected "peace," during a time of proclaimations of "peace and security," yes, during that time of peace, then...
..."sudden destruction is INSTANTLY" upon Israel... as being led by wicked, dastardly, spiritual "sons of darkness" ... the G.B. & WTS. The "man of lawlessness" will be fully "revealed" at this time, as "sons of darkness." The false "god" in Jehovah God's "temple", the self-exalting "god" that "publicly shows himself", "exalts himself" to be an actual "god" in God's Temple arrangement. -- 1 Thess. 5:2-4; 2 Thess. 2:3-12
Now, the START and BEGINNING of the "Great Tribulation" is upon "instantly upon" mystery "Israel." It was totally unforeseen. Yes, WORLDWIDE PERSECUTION will come upon mystery "Israel", God's Name People, Jehovah's Witnesses, as a nation, quickly, "instantly," world-wide.
In the days immediately ahead, Zechariah 12:2,3 shows "Jerusalem" will come under powerful, restraint, "seige" even, by the world at large. Certain "events" have caused this to occur, EVEN BEFORE the "Great War" is concluded...even before. A milder but much needed "righteous indignation" from God for the practice of "sin." But this is NOT ALL that comes upon them, since "sinful" Israel, does not repent...does not see the need for "repentance" before their God, Jehovah. Even though, the "Reformers", the "Sheiks of Judah" and "inhabitants of Jerusalem", the "Two Witnesses" movement of Revelation 11th chapter strongly advocates "repentance", demonstrated and depicted in scripture as wearing "sackcloth" garments...still, no repentance, on the part of "Israel." They ignore this "repentance" message from the "Two Witnesses." For this, mystery "Israel" will indeed, experience many "words of abuse" against them, during this time, from the world at large...all during this time of advocated "repentance" for the nation. -- See Ezekiel 36:12-14; Zechariah 12:2-8; Isaiah 43:28; Revelation 11:3-6
However, AFTER the "Great War," mystery "Israel," will be considered, earthwide "enemies" of mankind in general . However, during the 3 1/2 year "witnessing" period of "repentance" by the "Two Witnesses" to the JW Organization, particularly in the last year and a half of it, "Israel" will surely experience stinging, "abusive words" and other, comparatively milder forms of persecution directed at them because of a practice of unforeseen practice "sin" before God. Nevertheless, because of "sin" of leadership, thus the whole nation of "Israel" is guilty and must "answer" to God, according to Leviticus 4:3. The scriptural principle holds true today. -- Please carefully consider Ezekiel 36:12-14.
However, the ensuing "persecution" will be endured, tolerated, and overlooked and thus, NOT interpreted as God Ordained by the spiritual "Nation" in general because any "sinning" on their part as an international people carrying His Name. To be expected. Big mistake on the spiritual Nation's part.
Therefore something more is needed to really get their "attention." Real Persecution! So, AFTER the "Great War," this will all change. Change (Repentance) is actually forced upon mystery "Israel", at that time, the time of the "Great Tribulation," the "Great Distress" of Jeremiah 30:7. -- Revelation 7:14
Again, this all occurs because of the presence of a newly "crowned" world military power. And, it doesn't take long to find out, this new "king of the North," is not amused at all by the presence of the likes of spiritual "Israel." He has no tolerance at all for them, in their present mindset. Thus, with the backing of his great "war" machine behind him and political influence, he will insist upon spiritual "compromise" for the spiritual "nation." He will accept no less than TOTAL COMPROMISE from mystery "Israel." No less...the "mark of the beast." -- Revelation 13:16, 17
So, after the United States of American (As "King of the South") suffers, an embarrassing, humiliating, horrible defeat at his hands...peace comes. And, with that "peace" comes "sudden destruction," "instantly," ... the "Great Tribulation" upon God's Own Name People...mystery "Israel", Jehovah's Witnesses, led by spiritual "rebels" against God's "Holy Covenant." Also, the start of this attack on JWs, can also be considered the beginning of the "last week" of Daniel's 70-week prophecy...the start or beginning of the "Great Tribulation" upon "Israel" or "Jerusalem" ... modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation. -- Daniel 8:23; 11:30, 32; 1 Thess. 5:1-4; Daniel 9:24-27
And so we can see clearly that Bible prophecy indicates our world's scene will change drastically, AFTER these events take shape...after the "Great War." The "ride of the fiery-colored" horse of Revelation 6:4. And so, Jehovah's Witnesses as a people, will have to "change," to accommodate the situation...completely change, to appease this unexpected leader, the "King of the North." He is not fond of mystery "Israel," Jehovah's Witnesses at all.
And thus because of such unexpected "events" ahead, those that choose to "stay with the JW organization" at this time, will indeed, be "led into apostasy by smooth words" of the "King of the North." They will willingly accept and "receive the mark of the beast" as those in power at the helm of the organization will direct them to do so...during such an unexpected, unforeseen difficult time. -- Daniel 11:30-32; Revelation 13:16, 17
The Bible clearly speaks of, "predicts," changing political upheavals ahead, changes in policy as to how mystery "Israel", (Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation) will be handled and viewed by the world in general, governments of the world, in the days ahead. After the "Great War," spoken of in Daniel 10:1 NIV. -- See Matt. 24:7; Rev. 6:4.
Bible prophecy indicates that a major split or major break in the brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses, resulting in two factions of JWs, divided off from each other, but co-existing within the same worldwide congregational fold at the same time will occur. This division, which already exists, become MORE ACUTE AFTER, the pivotal date of October 7, 2001...the anniversary date of carrying the Name of God upon themselves as a spiritual nation for 70 YEARS!
WHY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE GOD'S PEOPLE, MYSTERY "ISRAEL" OF OUR TIMES
October 2001, is the 70th anniversary of the time when all JW congregations worldwide were in position to fully understand what it meant to accept that Name, to carry that Name, Preach that Name, the Name of God, upon themselves. They AGREED before God, Jesus Christ and all of the Heavenly Host, and even earthling man, yes, to carry that Great Name upon themselves -- To carry the weighty responsibility to "Live Up to that Great Name," upon themselves. It was a Covenant Arrangement between God and themselves as a Nation. Numbers 6:27 shows, God's "Blessings" came upon them as a "Covenanted" People before Him...because they agreed to "carry His Name upon themselves. -- See Deut. 26:2; Deut. 28:10; 1 Kings 8:41-43; 2 Chron. 7:14; Daniel 9:19; Jeremiah 25:29; Acts 15:14; Acts 15:17; Romans 2:24; 1 Timothy 6:1; Hebrews 6:10; Revelation 14:1
Mystery "Israel," The Answer: Jehovah's Witnesses are mystery "Israel," because primarily, they carry God's Name upon themselves, as a spiritual nation or people. Thus they have been permitted to enter a "Covenant" Relationship with Him, because of this. This could only have happened, unless God allowed it.
At present, because of bad leadership, the spiritual nation is "acting wickedly against that Covenant." (Let it be noted, there are other practices and teachings of the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses which also help us to identify them as mystery "Israel" of our day that are NOT mentioned in this treatise.) -- Daniel 11:30
It was indeed, the time when the spiritual nation began to embrace that Great Name before others, yes, preach that accepted identification, that Great Name, unto the world at large. A very, very heavy responsibility indeed...to "declare that Name" to others. -- Deut. 32:3 Psalms 105:1,3; 2 Timothy 2:19
Notice,
"In order that the leaders of the world might be duly notified of this proper designation for Jehovah's people this resolution [adopted previously July 26, 1931 at Columbus, Ohio Assembly] and the text of Brother Rutherford's convention address were published in the booklet The Kingdom the Hope of the World...During October of that year [1931, exactly 70 years ago] a campaign was conducted by the congregations to visit every clergyman, politician and big businessman in their territories with this booklet. In just the United States and Canada 132,066 booklets were put out in this way. Within the next few months this booklet reached the homes of five million others in all parts of the earth." -- Jehovah's Witnesses In the Divine Purpose (pub. 1959), page 126, par. 2
October 1931 -- October 2001 ... a 70-year period...of Carrying God's Name...a period of special "Discipline" or instruction from Him...70 Years of Discipline Upon Israel.
These events spoken of in this writing, are sure to come, based upon Bible prophecy. The "Reformers", make up the "Two Witness" Movement of Revelation 11th chapter, as we see it among JWs as a nation...as they work among them today. Even now, the "Reformers" and the Non-Reformers co-exist together in the JW Organization. We are quite aware that many JWs are not for any form of "reform" at all. They follow the presumed "F&D Slave" implicitly, completely without question. Still, very shortly both groups will be divided by "heated issues"...after October 7, 2001.
However, they will continue to co-exist for a time...still staying together for a period of time. But their "division" will become more pronounced, AFTER October of 2001. It will become visible at that time, much more open, as to their "differences." Thus, a visible, major split is foretold in prophecy for the nation of "Israel," Jehovah's Witnesses at that time. The split will become visible...open for the public and all to see, an already existing split...for now about 2 years.
This VISIBLE split occurs, as Bible prophecy indicates approximately the same time the "King of the North" in the person of the "small horn," surfaces on the earth's scene...when the spiritual "rebels" against God, "act to a completion." This will be a time for special ACTION for the "sheiks of Judah," who are urged on by the "inhabitants of Jerusalem," reformer supporters. The "Sheiks of Judah" will be encouraged by these newfound supporters, the "inhabitants of Jerusalem." It will be during this time, a time of special "blindness" dealt out by Jehovah God upon "Israel's" leaders for the practice of "sin" when the "Sheiks of Judah" wreak havoc upon the JW organization, and the fight, the differences become quite VISIBLE. -- Please carefully consider Zechariah 12:4-6.
At this time, the "1,260 days" of "witnessing" or "prophesying" on the part of the "Two Witness" Movement, will indeed, be nearing its finish or completion ...with close to 2 years of that particular period of "witnessing" already passed...the "break in the brotherhood" of "Israel," between "Judah" and "Israel", will now be more pronounced, more discernable...all around this Great Anniversary Date of October 7, 2001. God is always on time to carry out His Word. Bible Prophecy brings it all together for us...in perfect blend and perfect harmony. -- Zechariah 11:14; Daniel 8:23; Revelation 11:3; Isaiah 19:2-4; 55:8-11
After all of this occurs, you O Israel, will surely know, "that a prophet has surely been in your midst." -- Ezekiel 2:5
Just as these things start to occur, a small "remnant" from "Israel" (the "Tents of Judah") will begin to see, how lovingly, Jehovah God has provided many, many clues to assist his people during this time of "Great Distress," through Bible Prophecy. This is something we will have to admit, when we see these events occur...Even those who scoff. -- Zechariah 12:7; Amos 3:7; Jeremiah 30:7; 1 John 4:8; Acts 13:40, 41
"Alas! For that day is a great one, so that there is no other like it [the "Great Tribulation" upon "Jacob"], and it is the time of distress for Jacob [or "Israel"]. But he will be saved even out of it." -- Jeremiah 30:7
Yes, mystery Israel "will be saved even out of it," ... this "Great Tribulation" coming upon the spiritual nation, for their many acts of "sin" and "transgression" against God. The God of the "Holy Covenant" that they VIOLATE continually...following the wicked, nefarious "Man of Lawlessness," who is UNREVEALED at the time of this writing before "Israel." -- Revelation 7:14; 2 Thess. 2:3-12
I repeat, Bible prophecy clearly shows the uprising of the "small horn" to be a real force to be reckoned with, militarily. He makes his appearance, his initial appearance, when spiritual "Rebels" of lawlessness or religious apostasy, leaders among God's Name People, act to introduce and scripturally justify the full acceptance and presence of the "Disgusting thing that causes Desolation" who is now all of a sudden, to the "horror" of many, now being allowed to "stand in a holy place", in the place that they previously were made to understand, the place where he "ought not" to be "standing," ... in close, intimate proximity to the "camp" of mystery "Israel"! -- Matt. 24:15, 16; Mark 13:14
When Jehovah's Witnesses "catch sight" of this despicable scene, they must use "discernment", interpret the events immediately, and as Jesus said, and "flee" immediately. -- Matt. 24:15, 16; Mark 13:14
Daniel 8:23 says,
"In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked [leaders of "Israel"], a stern-faced King, a master of intrigue, will arise." -- New International Version
Or this rendering,
"And in the final part of their kingdom [Israel], as the transgressors act to a completion, there will stand up a KING FIERCE IN COUNTENANCE and understanding ambiguous sayings." -- New World Translation
Yes, the real spiritual "transgressors" among mystery "Israel", Jehovah's Witnesses, are the spiritual leaders of Mystery "Israel," the "Man of Lawlessness." And for them, this is a specific time of special "transgression" on their parts...October 7, 2001. -- 2 Thess. 2:3-12; Matthew 24:15, 16; Mark 13:14
To be sure, he is coming, the "small horn," ... the terrible "king of the North", the "master of intrigues" who will after the "Great War," lead mystery "Israel" by means of "smooth words" ... into complete "APOSTASY" against God. -- Daniel 8:9; 11:30-32
October 7, 2001 will be a serious "day" for all of mystery "Israel" of Bible prophecy...a day where the "reader must use discernment", a day of earth-shaking decision for all Jehovah's Witnesses earthwide. -- Matt. 24:15; Mark 13:14
MDS
Posted for all to examine by Smitty
bjc2012

Smitty,
MDS said above:
...However, during the 3 1/2 year "witnessing" period of "repentance" by the "Two Witnesses" to the JW Organization, particularly in the last year and a half of it, "Israel" will surely experience stinging, "abusive words" and other, comparatively milder forms of persecution directed at them because of a practice of unforeseen practice "sin" before God. Nevertheless, because of "sin" of leadership, thus the whole nation of "Israel" is guilty and must "answer" to God, according to Leviticus 4:3. The scriptural principle holds true today. -- Please carefully consider Ezekiel 36:12-14.
Based upon what MDS teaches, the "3 1/2 years of "witnessing" against the WTS Organization starts in the Fall of 1999 and runs thru Spring of 2003. Therefore, the specified period that MDS singles out for special attention above as noted, would be the "last year and half of it", as he says above. That means from Fall of 2001 thru Spring of 2003. That particular 18 month period.
Now, MDS wrote this over a year ago, fall of 2001 as the post is clearly dated for all to see. (If you want to check the dates, here is it.) http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=11937&site=3
So "MDS" clearly explains above about Almighty God taking certain "action" against JWs because of the "unforeseen practice of sin before" Him? He also says above they are "guilty" as a nation and must "answer to God, according to Leviticus 4:3". Then MDS invites us to carefully consider the prophecy of Ezekiel 36:12-14.
I will quote it below:
"And upon you I [Jehovah] will cause humankind to walk, even my people Israel, and they must take possession of you, and you must become a hereditary possession to them, and you will not bereave them again of any more children. This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, "For the reason that there are those saying to you: "A devourer of humankind is what you yourself are, and [a land] bereaving your nations of children is what you have become," therefore humankind you willno more devour, and your nations you will no more bereave of children, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah."
In the prophecy, Jehovah says above, wayward Israel has become a "land bereaving your nations of children". Meaning, they "bereave" their own "nations of children". How? Presently it is clear, they "bereave their nations of children" with this child molestation problem that has openly been revealed to be a GLOBAL PROBLEM with Jehovah's Witnesses as a international people. But it was NOT revealed as a GLOBAL PROBLEM, a veritable "pedophile paradise" when MDS wrote this, was it?
Also, the prophecy shows God as saying they have become "a devourer of humankind". How? No doubt by the practice of lawless inhumane disfellowshipment. Again, on a GLOBAL SCALE, internationally speaking. A GLOBAL problem.
Now, I myself, personally commented on this very situation and completely explained it in detail on this discussion board, July of 2001, well over a year ago. I wrote it specifically to "Silentlambs", Bill Bowens. Here is the link:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=8040&site=3
Now that was before,
1) Catholic Pedophile/Priest Problem gains worldwide attention in the media. Again, Jehovah "primes-the-pump" to set up whats next,
2) TV Program NBC Dateline aires (since many, at the time I wrote the article, thought it might not even air.)
3) Panarama aires in Europe, with devastating damage to worldly "reputation" and credibility to JWs
4) New York Times Article
5) Connie Chung CNN Coverage
6) Numerous Articles around the Globe, AP coverage on JWs about Child Molestation and inhumane Disfellowship practices
7) Public envision "SILENTLAMB MARCH"
all resulting in a "bad report" among worldly people, as mentioned in Ezekiel 36:3, on a global scale.
A "BAD REPORT" has been accomplished, on a Global Scale, and it is not over yet. A Bible prophecy has been fulfilled upon JWs, for all the world to see, hear and understand.
Now, we can deny it if we want, but that's our own CHOICE.
But, I'm here to tell you, Bill Bowens is NOT responsible for the above actions. Almighty God is. A serious, noteworthy "sign", a fulfillment of prophecy about a "Bad Report" going out on Israel, has been accomplished. A "sign" with distinct all the necessary distinctive features and distinguishing aspects to help all lovers of truth, "see the light".
And I for one say, God Almighty did it.
But my personal question would be this?
Since I got all of my information from WICKED, FALSE PROPHET "MDS", how for God's Sake, did he know all this BEFORE, I said, BEFORE it happened? After all, I know it was "MDS" that was the one that directed me to the APPROPRIATE Scriptures, quite some time ago, as proven by the article I wrote back in July 2001.
So, I wonder where he got his wicked information from? You think, Satan? But I asked myself, would Satan provide vital information that would give support to the truthfulness and accuracy of the Bible, God's Word? Would Satan, set out to prove that God's Word, prophecy from Ezekiel 36th chapter, was coming true in our day?
I don't think Satan would do that.
So, I'm left in a quandary about this info proceeding from "MDS".
You say "MDS" is from SATAN. You and "Logical" say he is a false prophet, from Satan.
But, if that is the case then, I have real proof that SATAN IS HELPING ME SERVE JEHOVAH BETTER! And if that is the case, I'll accept Satan's help then. As along as my FAITH in Jehovah is continually strengthened and my faith in God's Word of truth through prophecy, I'll take that kind of help any day of the week.
What do you say, Smitty?
bjc
Edited by - bjc2012 on 22 October 2002 11:28:38
Smitty

However, they will continue to co-exist for a time...still staying together for a period of time. But their "division" will become more pronounced, AFTER October of 2001. It will become visible at that time, much more open, as to their "differences." Thus, a visible, major split is foretold in prophecy for the nation of "Israel," Jehovah's Witnesses at that time. The split will become visible...open for the public and all to see, an already existing split...for now about 2 years.
Smitty
bjc2012

Smitty,
6 months will cover that statement. We still have another 6 months to go, Smitty. Besides that "visible division" he spoke is manifesting itself too. Personally, I have in my possession serious "evidence" of real division and problems brewing in "WT Land", deep "divisions" manifesting themselves, with respect to Jehovah's Witnesses. I can't divulge everything just yet, but I have plenty of evidence that leads me to believe in what MDS teaches about these coming "divisions" among JWs. But I also believe the real hard "evidence" is coming too.
For all interested parties who do not have ULTERIOR motives as Smitty does, please check out the following link. A powerful letter addressed all "Bodies of Elders" about the problems within the JW Organization, that could jeapodize its worldwide unity.
http://www.exjws.net/letter1boe.htm
Who wrote this letter, I ask?
Also this,
The following "letter" which was addressed to the "Governing Body" of JWs. It was posted on "Silentlambs" Guestbook on June 18, 2002 for the examination of all who are interested. The letter states,
"This letter was sent on behalf of many brothers and sister gathering in our home afraid to speak out on what we have seen and endured. To the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses; As members of the Jehovah's Witness' organization we feel that unity in the place of rightness is found in all religions. We will do all that we can to preach that we only adhere to the bible and not to imperfect men. The "Organization" is not always directed by God or Christ, but by selfish desire. WE NOW HAVE A GREAT FOLLOWING WHO SEEK TRUTH AND WISH THE DISOLVEMENT OF THE GOVERNING BODY. "
A sobering thought. Real Division seen here. The letter continues.
"We the collective of Witness' continue to meet for pure truth. We are free to speak and to think without the pollution of false doctrine. OUR NUMBERS ARE GROWING SECRETLY AND PROPORTIONATELY THROUGHOUT THE US AND MEXICO. Soon we will start for the path of truth too. Jehovah and his beloved son Jesus. Unless the Governing Body's viewpoints change, all of you will just have to face the fact that we no longer see the Society as the absolute truth in governing Jehovah's thoughts and love for his people."
The note continues with this most powerful point:
"Just as Israel split into two separate nations, SO WE SEE OUR ORGANIZATION ALSO. WE SHALL SOON DECLARE OUR INDEPENDENCE AND SECEDE FROM THE WATCHTOWER AND TRACT SOCIETY AND FORM OUR OWN NATION TO SERVE JEHOVAH AND HIS SON CHRIST. All of you have been found guilty and listed as Inquisitors of Evil. We pray to Jehovah that you shall turn away from bad and do what is good in the eyes of the Lord. Repent for your wicked acts Brothers that you will find peace with yourselves. Your Resignations are expected promptly. Jehovah's Theocratic State of Free People."
So, I have evidence of this "VISIBLE DIVISION" forming, Smitty. And remember, Smitty, we still have another 6 months to go, right?
But Smitty, my question to you is this: you still have not addressed what was written above, about Ezekiel 36 and child molestation/disfellowshipment on a GLOBAL SCALE problem? Remember, the "BAD REPORT" that God caused. (Ezekiel 36:3)
You want to direct attention to something else, AWAY FROM my original observation. You don't want the people to see it, do you? Just like Satan. Aways working and fighting against the truth.
Now, if you were for what is right, you would have at least, ACKNOWLEDGED the point. You would have at least, said something about the point. But you didn't.
Why? Now, what does that tell me about you, Smitty -- the person? Are you really searching for "truth" Smitty? Or, are you just seeking to "tear down" people, seeking to discourage people, destroy the faith of people, seekers of truth, people like myself, somebody, anybody and keep them from hearing truth.
Hmmmmmm.
I really can't figure out why you keep lying on MDS. Why are you NOT listening to what he says, instead of attacking him all the time. I do know, however, that from the outset, you have only shown yourself to be a proliferous liar, and vicious hater of truth.
Of course, I know you may repent one day, I don't know.
God's Word says some work for Satan, and then later repent. I don't know, you may be one of them. (2 Tim. 2:25, 26)
bjc
Edited by - bjc2012 on 22 October 2002 15:33:47
logical

also,
MDS taught Saddam Hussein was the king of the north in 1990 during the gulf war. And the "Mother of all Battles" was the great one mentioned in the book of Daniel.
Produce the "proof" that MDS said this.
If not, you are a liar.
bjc

Im sure I can find proof that YOU said the "Mother of all Battles" was the Iraq war a couple of years ago..... Simon keeps chat logs.

No Questions, No Answers!

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