by cha ching 116 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Fisherman, I believe you have no basis for your theory. If you are asked to leave bethel for any kind of wrong doing you go immediately after a judicial type hearing. There is no waiting around for a few days, there are no degrees of sin in JWshire, you sinned or not, you are out or you are in.
We have no way of validating what this young man says but to me it has the ring of truth.
Fisherperson, as usual you sound rediculious. Added to the list of not taking legal advice from you is not to take insight on how bethel works.
as a former bethelite i can attest that cappy is 100% correct. If they dismiss you for cause you are escorted to your room to collect some clothing and carry-on items. Your handed a plane/bus ticket and escorted to a waiting taxi outside the bethel facilities. Have a nice life and oh by the way a scathing letter is sent to your home congregation. Saw it happen four times exactly as I described.
"layoffs" happen much as the young man described in part one. They call you (and others) in one at a time. Give you the okie doke speech and a week to get out. The young man would have been told on that initial meeting that he had a week to make arrangments but i can understand how he could have missed that in his emotional state.
I'm with Fisherman.
Also, judging by his hat, he obviously had spiritual problems. I would bet that he was going around encouraging white sisters to wear yoga pants while chanting, "Look at dat azz!!"
He was obviously not Bethel material. Good call, TOMO.
DD
For a young person to be ill for 4 or 5 weeks is enough to be kicked out of bethel.
(my own experience with a 24 years old former bethelite - after 4 years in bethel).
No reason for kicking was told to him - no wrong doing - so his illnes seems to be the only reason.
DATA-DOG
He was obviously not Bethel material. Good call, TOMO.
Good point. If you are not a MS or Elder within a couple of years in bethel - you are not "bethel material".
Hopefully, this will be enough to get this young man out of this cult. It is truly sad how they treat others. I hope he is ok.
They don't care about anyone but themselves.
There was a general layoff then. I meet 2 of the layoff-ees manning a cart on the beach in San Diego, CA. The man had been in Bethel for over 20 years. He was very proud of that fact and mentioned the layoffs as the reason he was no longer there. He wanted to make sure we knew that he had done no wrong-doing. He told us this while on the beach on a lovely day wearing a suit and tie and sitting next to a propaganda cart.
This comes directly form the LRA [Labour Relations Act] Republic of South Africa
A person is presumed to be an employee if any one of the 7 factors listed in the LRA – section 200A – or the BCEA section 83A - is present in the relationship between that person and the person for whom they work or to whom they render services. It must be emphasized that not all of these factors must be present – only one of them needs to be present. Subject to the earnings threshold, the presumption applies to any proceedings in terms of either the BCEA or the LRA in which a person alleges “I am an employee in terms of the LRA or BCEA”, and the other party disputes that allegation.
In order to be presumed to be an employee, any one of the following factors must be present:
A person who works for, or renders services to, any other person is presumed, until the contrary is proved, to be an employee, regardless of the form of contract, if any one or more of the following factors is present:
Therefore Bethalites in South Africa are employees and must be dealt with according to all the requirements of the LRA [Labour Relations Act and the BCEA [ Basic Conditions of Employment Act] -- Therefore in terms of this Topic, be dismissed ONLY after ALL the processes required and applicable to a Retrenchment have been fulfilled. And this will include all the benefits due to them etc etc.
The Body of Labour Law in South Africa is very well constituted and drafted and falls under the ambit of one of the most "liberal" constitutions in the world.
Also - in most "reasonably governed" nations the Labour Laws are guided by that which derives from the ILO [International Labour Organisation]
Bethal South Africa was taken to task a few years back for not being compliant - under the claim that Bethelites are volunteers and have taken a Vow of Poverty etc etc but the Labour Dept. overruled. [See the 7 Points above]
The following is from the LRA of South Africa relating to Dismissal of Employees related to Operational Requirements ie Retrenchment:
189. Dismissals based on operational requirements
(1) When an employer contemplates dismissing one or more employees for reasons based on the employer's operational requirements, the employer must consult-
(a) any person whom the employer is required to consult in terms of a collective agreement;
(b) if there is no collective agreement that requires consultation –
(i) a workplace forum, if the employees likely to be affected by the proposed dismissals are employed in a workplace in respect of which there is a workplace forum; and
(ii) any registered trade union whose members are likely to be affected by the proposed dismissals;
(c) if there is no workplace forum in the workplace in which the employees likely to be affected by the proposed dismissals are employed, any registered trade union whose members are likely to be affected by the proposed dismissals; or
(d) if there is no such trade union, the employees likely to be affected by the proposed dismissals or their representatives nominated for that purpose.
(2) The employer and the other consulting parties must, in the consultation envisaged by subsections (1) and (3), engage in a meaningful joint consensus-seeking process and attempt to reach consensus on –
(a) appropriate measures-
(i) to avoid the dismissals;
(ii) to minimise the number of dismissals;
(iii) to change the timing of the dismissals; and
(iv) to mitigate the adverse effects of the dismissals;
(b) the method for selecting the employees to be dismissed; and
(c) the severance pay for dismissed employees.
(3) The employer must issue a written notice inviting the other consulting party to consult with it and disclose in writing all relevant information, including, but not limited to-
(a) the reasons for the proposed dismissals;
(b) the alternatives that the employer considered before proposing the dismissals, and the reasons for rejecting each of those alternatives;
(c) the number of employees likely to be affected and the job categories in which they are employed;
(d) the proposed method for selecting which employees to dismiss;
(e) the time when, or the period during which, the dismissals are likely to take effect;
(f) the severance pay proposed;
(g) any assistance that the employer proposes to offer to the employees likely to be dismissed;
(h) the possibility of the future re-employment of the employees who are dismissed;
(i) the number of employees employed by the employer; and
(j) the number of employees that the employer has dismissed for reasons based on its operation requirements in the preceding 12 months.
(4)
(a) The provisions of section 16 apply, read with the changes required by the context, to the disclosure of information in terms of subsection (3).
(b) In any dispute in which in which an arbitrator or the Labour Court is required to decide whether or not any information is relevant, the onus is on the employer to prove that any information that it has refused to disclose is not relevant for the purposes for which it is sought.
(5) The employer must allow the other consulting party an opportunity during consultation to make representations about any matter dealt with in subsections (2), (3) and (4), as well as any other matter relating to the proposed dismissals.
(6)
(a) The employer must consider and respond to the representations made by the other consulting party and, if the employer does not agree with them, the employer must state the reasons for disagreeing.
(b) If any representation is made in writing, the employer must respond in writing.
(7) The employer must select the employees to be dismissed according to selection criteria-
(a) that have been agreed to by the consulting parties; or
(b) if no criteria have been agreed, criteria that are fair and objective.
In Essence it is a 2-Way process - not Unilateral and it cannot be done in a very "short" period of time. eg overnight !
The consultation process must be exhaustive ! The main aim would be to remove the need to retrench in the first place otherwise that all parties concerned reach consensus.
Note the first point above - the consultation process must commence when the Employer initially contemplates retrenchment - not at some advance point down the line.
