Jesus needs to be DFed !!! (page 3)

MegaDude

Saint Satan said:

"Therefore, god could have started teaching love 1500 yrs sooner, at least."

How in the world was this philosophy was going to be birthed without establishing the culture of Isreal first? It was a step by step process.

Some claim that love is a universal language. They could be right. Anyway, why would you assume that god had to start w a bunch of thieving sheep herders? He could have started w any nation. There were a few highly developed cultures and a few mediumly developed ones. Egypt, babylon, india, phoenicia, meso-america come to mind. I'm sure there were a few others as well, w higher culture than moses' band had.

SS

MegaDude

Saint,

My only point was that it was a primitive violent world and any religious evolution would be gradual. The culture that Jesus came from never would have happened if it hadn't also been war-like and subdued the surrounding cultures and established itself.

Think about our culture here in the US and how it has evolved. Why did we have slaves at one time? Why weren't women allowed to vote at one time?

It's an evolving enlightenment.

Satanus

Mega

The culture that Jesus came from never would have happened if it hadn't also been war-like and subdued the surrounding cultures and established itself.

It's an evolving enlightenment.

Yes, enlightenment has been evolving for thousands of yrs. If not around the image of jesus, then it would have developed through another channel. In the east, buddha started a movement that worked against the hindu caste system. In meso-america quetselcoatl introduced a peaceful way. None of those entities succeeded totally, but they helped their civilizations take another step.

It's interesting that isreal never became a world power. Contrast the small kingdom of israel to rome. Rome started from a city state or small state. It grew from there, to become an empire, eventually covering europe and britain. Why was israel unable to do this same thing? That was the dream of it's prophets. I suggest that the nature of the jews was predatorial. If they were not preying on others, they turned on their countrymen. That nature caused them to tend toward self destruction. Also, their nieghbors found them to be intolerable.

The nature of the romans was such that they were able to use restraint and cooperate, so that they were able to build a much larger organised society than could the israelites.

SS

Navigator

Saint Satan

Interesting post. That could explain why the Roman Govenors regarded an assignment to Judea as the pits.

A Paduan

Were the Jews chosen because they were 'special' - but not like they thought?

"Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick"

paduan

Kenneson

A Paduan,

"How odd of God to choose the Jews."

jst2laws

Hello SaintSatan and Dude,

You have made some good points but seem to take the Hebrew scriptures very literally.

It seems too me everything that happened to the people of Israel was 'a warning', not a model. If they were chosen by God its was because of their fanaticism, not because of their superiority over their neighbors. If they were chosen, it was to show us how not to live our lives nor how to worship God.

When Jesus arrived it was at the end of this dramatic lesson and the Jews played their part for Oscars in the finish of the drama with the murder of a man who claimed to be the real "way, truth and life". That system was a "shadow" of the reality, a "tutor" leading to the 'way'. That system ended accomplishing nothing except to make the failure obvious (make sins manifest). That is what we can thank the Jews for, and all we get from the Hebrew scriptures.

SaintSatan,

You said:

Yes, enlightenment has been evolving for thousands of yrs. If not around the image of Jesus, then it would have developed through another channel.

This is a good point. But no other people could teach us this lesson better than the Jews and their son Jesus.

That lesson to me is: ritualistic sacrifices and perfunctory works of self redemption accomplish nothing. It was invented by sick mankind in the early part of our spiritual evolution and needs to be abandoned. The message of the enlightened Jesus was: Forget about it. Its already done and you are cool with God.

You also raised the question of a kingdom.

It's interesting that Israel never became a world power. Contrast the small kingdom of Israel to Rome. Rome started from a city state or small state. It grew from there, to become an empire, eventually covering europe and britain. Why was israel unable to do this same thing?

Another none issue. The issue of Kingdoms was also invented by insecure mankind in his early spiritual evolution. Jesus came along and again said: Forget about it. The kingdom is no part of this world.

If we had time we could walk through all the early issues and we would eventually understand that what Jesus meant when I told the Jews he came to "fulfill the law and the prophets".

MegaDude

Interesting points too!

Jst2laws

MegaDude

Saint Satan said:

It's interesting that isreal never became a world power. Contrast the small kingdom of israel to rome. Rome started from a city state or small state. It grew from there, to become an empire, eventually covering europe and britain. Why was israel unable to do this same thing?

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What is interesting is that Rome adopted Christianity as their state religion and Isreal did not. Who was the stronger nation?

MegaDude

Jst said,

The issue of Kingdoms was also invented by insecure mankind in his early spiritual evolution. Jesus came along and again said: Forget about it. The kingdom is no part of this world.

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If the Isrealites had followed this simple dictum, it would saved them from being massacred by the Romans. Jesus was telling them that for their own best interest.

Jesus needs to be DFed !!!

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