a world without god (page 3)

SixofNine

how do you account for all the violence in nature?

god loves video games

Windchaser

I think religion and what men do in the name of it is evil.

The feelings I had about the Creator when I was a little girl and the feelings I get when I contemplate the beauty of nature erase all my doubts. I can't fathom why he lets things go on the way they do, either, Lyin. We supposedly have his attributes...so why would he allow his children to suffer so much? We wouldn't do this to our children.

Nathan Natas

[ Amazing said, "It would be arrogant to declare no god as it would be to declare there are no civilizations on other planets in the galaxy or the universe."

I don't agree with you on this, Amazing, for the following reason: We know the physical universe exists. We can SEE other galaxies, which led to the hypothesis that these other stars (suns) might have planetary systems orbiting them just as our Sun has a planetary system orbiting it. The basis for this hypothesis was the understanding that truth is congruent with observable reality. For years the idea of extra-solar planetary systems was only a hypothesis, but new technology (the product of the mind of man and NOT of divine revelation) has proven the existence of several "Jupiter" sized planets orbiting other stars. The really BIG planets are going to be easier to see than relatively small "M class" (earthlike) planets.

Because of a rational scientific examination of our world, we now understand the thermonuclear reactions that transmute hydrogen into helium, carbon, oxygen, iron - all the elements in our periodic chart were born in our star, the sun. Other suns would producte those exact same elements by exactly similar reactions.

We have reproduced in laboratories the conditions of primitive earth and discovered that RNA can be formed in vitro - in a flask.

There are is NO equivalent demonstrations that even suggests the existence of god. Not even a crazy god like Loki of Norse mythology or a "Mr. Mxyzptlk"-like being from Superman comics.

There are experiences which can be explained by an understanding of human physiology, usually the effects of oxygen deprivation or the effect of hallucinogens, but these get us right back into the tangible physical world and offer no support for hypothesizing the existence of in-tangible, super-natural, meta-physical worlds.

Edited by - Nathan Natas on 23 October 2002 10:15:15

Guest 77

Chris Vance, when it comes playing golf and golf equipment, variables is a must to know!

Guest 77

Tatiana

Probably billions more "Christians" have been murdered in the name of God and religion, etc., than Satan worshipers. I don't get it.

Sometimes the evils in the world so overwhelm me, that I feel ill. If we are made in God's image, then why, oh, why is there so much more evil than good? I want to believe in a loving God, but I just don't see it. I think it's all a cruel game. We are pawns. The game started in Eden. Two perfect humans, who had everything they could desire, could not "obey" God's command. He lost the game right then and there. And should have hit replay.

DannyBear

Chris,

You are tying God the creator to god (Jehovah,YHWH) of the bible. I don't believe that the creator has to be anything like what man decided God should be.

Violence/wickedness is a natural occurence. In one form or another, we have all practiced, or experienced it. The animals practicing such with no pang of consience, man doing so with whatever excuse is expediant. Why must we assume, that the creator never intended it to be other than what it is? Because a shepherd thousands of year's ago, proclaimed that 'god is love'????

Insight is in the eye of the beholder.

For me spirituality ,today at this moment, includes the belief in an intelligent designer. Until someone or something convinces me otherwise.

Danny

RunningMan

A world without God... let's see. There would be no:

- inquisitions
- crusades
- jihads

There would be fewer:
- suicide bombers
- wars
- genocides
- holocausts

Religious people seem to think that it is only the belief in God that prevents persons from becoming killing machines. This is simplistic and shows considerable conciet on the part of the person speaking. In reality, far more killing has been prompted by belief in God than by athiesm.

The only thing that the JW's ever got right was that "religion is a snare and a racket".

DannyBear

RunningMan,

I think a more consise statement would be: 'A world without RELIGION...lets see. There would be no:

Don't ya think?

DB

bjc2012

Runningman,

You spoke pure truth!

No question mankind's long history eloquently testify to one profound "TRUTH":

that mayhem, chaos and violence today as in the past, is without question almost always REL:IGION INSPIRED.

However, here is what I personally think is really insidious about this whole scenio.

FALSE RELIGION is always, always Satan inspired, and always works to distort our concept of the true personality of God.

And this of course, always gives rise to more confusion and discontentment among mankind. Wars aftermath, produces rampant infectious disease, devastating famine and inhumane sufferings which then leads to more distrust in a loving God's existence. This in turn, then leads many to faulty conclusions that God doesn't care which makes for unfortunately, in a self-inflicted permanent alienation with God and a permanent detachment from Him. In other words, after so much horrendous death, pain and suffering, self inflicted by man upon man, the Satan inspired circumstance makes it almost impossible for some, even onlookers who are not directly involved in the particular violence even, to lack belief in the possibility of a loving creator's existence. Violence can do all of this.

Of course, we know this is NOT God's will for the earth. God enjoys peace. He a God of peace. And Satan knows this. But, Satan can play the "violence" card quite well.

But I believe, things go even deeper than this. More thought or "method to the madness" here.

Actually, Satan masterfully wishes to maneuver All-Powerful God who we remember "hates" violence, into a place where He does NOT want to be. (Psalms 11:5) And this place is the destruction of all mankind because of "violence". You see, if Satan can get Jehovah to destroy all mankind, then he would have completely vitiated the purposes of God, masterfully so I might add, and thwarted God's Soulful Desire to have the earth beautifully inhabited fully, in peace. Therefore, the unavoidable destruction of mankind by God's own hand, necessarily so because of man's insistence upon violence and war as a perferred "method" to bring about so-called "peace", would bring great pain and suffering to Almighty God himself in the aftermath. In addtion, it would prove God Himself to have failed at His own purpose, and be shown to be a "loser" with a capital "L" and show himself to be just as "imperfect", as Satan is. Thus equality is achieved between God and Satan. An attainable goal Satan feels, for himself, if he can "pull it off". And so far, so good, according to Satan that is.

Therefore, Satan knows as long as man is violent, he can not get in touch with God, ever. Because violence is one of the things that God hates. In fact, the primary reason, God intervened in mankind's affairs before and brought the "flood" and destroyed or virtually wiped out mankind from the face of the earth, except for Noah and his family was chiefly because of wanton violence. Violence "ruins" the earth, in God's sight, and thus will not be tolerated by him, endlessly. Another fact that Satan knows. (Gen. 6:12, 13; Psalms 11:5)

Therefore, based upon the above, I will make a simple point. And this point is based upon the belief of the existence of a benevolent God who actually LOVES PEACE, and a devious supernatural force whom we will call, for the time being, "Satan" whose chief aim is necessarily to cause chasos or mayhem, but secretly is doing this to cause certain circumstances which puts himself in position to ACHIEVE EQUALITY with Almighty God -- the thing that he really wants. Meaning, after Satan achieves his "goal" of EQUALITY with God, he wouldn't care if mankind had million, zillion years of peace. What does he care? He got what he wanted, in that he would have proven his "point", you see. Therefore "violence" from man, becomes then, the method to the madness. It becomes Satan's effective "tool", the "means" by which Satan seeks to achieve his secret "goal", his ultimate "goal" -- true equality with God. Therefore in that sense, he must by necessity, become the actual the antithesis of all that is good (or God), pure evil, to achieve what he really seeks. This is the role he must play out, and bring out so much "violence" among mankind.

And what better way for the Devil to work this "method" than to use (false) religion to produce violence in the earth. False Religion to induce "violence" between nations. The "Christians" against the "Moslems". Yes, use religious fervor. After 9/11, who on the planet earth could ever doubt the faith, dedication, and loyality of members of the Islamic extremists, who would drive an jet, use it as a "weapon" for God's sakes, and dirve the jet into a building, to his own death and the death of many others, for the glory of "Allah".

Absolutely incredible!

Most of us just couldn't believe what we had just witnessed. It was truly amazing, stunning. 9/11 made us all think: America's religious fervor could never match such devotion and the religious fervor of in these religious zealots, of Osama bin Laden. The people of Islam put new meaning into being "religious" altogether.

So violence is a powerful tool of Satan.

Solution: Since some men will never, ever repent and become "peaceful" (no doubt largely to false religious views), all lovers of peace by necessity must continually seek God, seek true religion, see peace, and deely "love truth and Peace" with God, like Noah and to be preserved through this imminent future collision between God and violent men that we know, is bound to come. -- Zechariah 8:19

God said of Noah, at the time of his entering the "Ark",

"After that Jehovah said to Noah: "Go, you and all your household, into the ark, because you are the one I have seen to be righteous before me among the generation." -- Gen. 7:1

The whole "generation" may be violent. Still, Almighty God made the determination that Noah was "righteous" and saved him, after he had performed many acts of "peace" before God. He proved he was, as Jesus said, "a friend of peace". -- Luke 10:6

In fact if obedient, Israel was to become the "seed of peace" to all other nations, wherein God could finally restore "peace" to all the earth. After 6,000 years of violence, we now know that only God can bring true "peace" to the earth. But his purppose was first, for "Israel" to become to God, the "Seed of Peace". However, that never occurred, in Jesus' day nor ours. -- Zech. 8:12, 13; Luke 10:6

But it is in the future. One will come forth and finally make "peace" with God, so far as this earth is concerned. Micah 5:5 says of him:

"And this one must become peace..."

Ezekiel 34:22-25 says of him,

"And I will raise up over them one shepherd, and he must feed them, even my servant David. He himself will feed them, and he himself will become their shepherd. And I myself, Jehovah, will become their God, and my servant David a chieftain in the midst of them. I myself, Jehovah, have spoken. And I will conclude with them a covenant of peace..."

This is the only way true "peace" with God will be achieved for wayward "Israel" today, Jehovah's Witnesses.

He is the mystery "Chieftain" of Ezekiel 44:1-3.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=10030&site=3

Going back to the first century, we know Jesus accomplished this too while on earth, but of course he went back to heaven, where he came from, leaving the earth in turmoil. While Jesus was on earth, the nation of Israel REJECTED the opportunity to become the "seed of peace". So "earthly" peace had to wait, at least as administrated through an EARTHLY ISRAEL as a national sovereighty, an earthly government . This is why Jesus said them,

"If you, even you, had discerned in this day the things having to do with peace, -- but now they have been hid from your". -- Luke 19:42

And it explains why the answer to the question: "...Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" -- Acts 1:6

And answer was no. Because Israel as a national sovereighty, was NOT a "friend of peace" and thus could not become the "seed of peace" for all others, at that time. The full restoration of the "kingdom to Israel" would have to wait until God's time for the resurgence of Peace, expressed thru earthly "Israel" as a government and separate sovereighty.

Real peace on earth, comes only through God, through His arrangement, the "seed of peace", Israel. And before all of that can happen, Israel has to come to "peace" with God themselves. At present, spiritual Israel [JWs] are not at peace with God. Israel today, must first become a "friend of peace" with God, as a nation. -- Luke 10:6

Like Noah, the God's mystery "Chieftain" will help Israel do this. The formula that Noah followed worked for him. It works for the mystery "Chieftain" of Ezekiel 44:1-3. And it must become ours, if we expect to make to it to safety and escape this Satanic, violent world.

Thanks again, as I enjoyed your comments immensely.

bjc

Edited by - bjc2012 on 23 October 2002 15:10:56

Edited by - bjc2012 on 23 October 2002 15:23:28

a world without god

SixofNine

ChrisVance

Windchaser

Nathan Natas

Guest 77

Tatiana

DannyBear

RunningMan

DannyBear

bjc2012

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