Stop Taking Bill's or Ray's Side!

by Derrick 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • Derrick
    Derrick
    gsark wrote:If they hold Ray Franz responsible in some way then I am on their side one hundred percent.

    The very implication behind this comment is chilling to me. Obviously, Ray simply wrote a Bible commentary on clearly written scriptures by an Apostle in the first century regarding said Apostle's views on the number of witnesses it takes to resolve a matter. Christians believe that Christ on God's authority spoke through that Apostle!

    Therefore, anybody who blames Ray is blaming the messenger of clearly stated Bible counsel to Christians.

    As a side note, I did a search for the word "apology" and it doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible. In the following scripture Jesus Christ never even implied that in order to forgive someone who has offended you, an apology from them is necessary:

    "Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times." (Matthew 18:21, 22)

    Matter of fact, followers of Jesus Christ keep forgiving without expecting an apology let alone using the legal system against the transgressor. Those who seem to have added to Jesus's words, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times, provided your brother is willing to apologize to you for his transgression," simply have never grasped the true meaning of Christianity. I pity those of you who fall into that category, because it is your attitude that is part of the reason that mankind has never enjoyed global peace in world history. Most people today are only willing to forgive provided someone posts a public apology for their transgression, or at the very least publicly states they apologize for having offending anyone.

    Those who respect the wisdom of God will simply forgive their brother who sins against them "seventy-seven times," and in the spirit of this counsel they will lose track of the number of times they forgive others! JESUS REQUIRED NO APOLOGY. The legal system and lawyers are feeding on the haste of people to easily take offense at others.

    I have not seen evidence anywhere on the site or the Internet that Bill, Silentlambs or Ray failed to forgive the other for any miscommunication or misunderstanding occurring between them if at all, or expect an apology from the other if there is anything to even apologize for. Both exercised their freedom of speech to disagree with the other on various issues regarding the application of certain scriptures, unless it eventually turns out they actually agreed all along.

    I challenge anyone on this board who is taking sides with either Silentlambs and Bill or Ray and on the warpath against the other:

    • Show everyone here where Ray expects an apology from Bill or anyone at www.silentlambs.org or has failed to forgive Bill or anyone else at Silentlambs if a miscommunication did occur between them?
    • Show everyone here where Silentlambs or Bill Bowen continue to blame Ray Franz for the Watchtower Society's interpretation of Ray's commentary in the 1970's on those scriptures or intend to "hold Ray Franz responsible in some way" or judge Ray negatively in any manner?

    I don't expect any response from anyone (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) who generously doled out adverse judgment against either side in their posts. On both of these bulleted counts, I don't expect anybody to defend their position by posting one valid shred of evidence that would "show everyone here" and support either challenge on this bulleted list!

    Notwithstanding any forthcoming evidence in this regard, the best thing you self-appointed Judges and demanders of apologies can do, IMO, is STOP TAKING BILL'S OR RAY'S SIDE! Let them resolve their differences offline, if any differences still exist. You might be better off getting out of this bright light and humid heat by slithering back into the cool dark place under that rock you normally hide under. However, be forewarned that if you quietly slither away, it won't protect you from anyone with cameras and flashlights intent on broadcasting whatever it is you practice in secret down there.

    Derrick

  • sf
    sf

    (deleted)

    Edited by - sf on 24 October 2002 21:56:36

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Rick,

    You put the position so well. Thanks for taking the trouble to put this together.

    I would add that the quote from gsark that heads your post is also an evidence of the type of "loyal" thinking that the Borg demands of its members. Very dangerous.

    Cheers, Ozzie

    Edited by - ozziepost on 24 October 2002 19:14:39

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Rick,

    Bill Bowen shot himself in the foot. To remove the buck shot from his foot he needs to make amends. In this medium the "amends" is a public apology.

    BTW, this has nothing to do with the Bible it has to do with common decency and/or smart politics. Whichever BB chooses is fine with me.

    IW

    Edited by - IslandWoman on 24 October 2002 19:14:26

  • kelsey007
    kelsey007

    Since the challenges have been laid out so well- I have an honest question in regards to silent lambs. This is not an intended slam or something negative- just an honest question- Have they exposed or come up with any pediphile case that occurred recently- I am not saying 5 to 10 years ago. I am saying in the last year or so. It seems that all the cases of alleged pediphile cases I have seen brought out by silent lambs occurred some time back. Therefore I was wondering if there are no recent cases where the crime was committed in the last year or so- well has there been any such uncovered and please lead me to a link that doccuments this.

    ThankYou

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    There are few things that touch people more than a heartfelt apology. We all make mistakes but there is just something that makes the world of difference to one that has been offended when an apology is offered.

    I realize Ray probably has not demanded or even hopes for an apology but sometimes these things are just the right thing to do.

    This whole thing is not about "taking sides" but about our individual responsibility to be accountable for our actions and all the more so when any of us accept a perceived position of leadership. It is about us striving to be just and fair and not hypocritical. Basically it is about us not being like the WT.

    Path

    Edited by - Pathofthorns on 24 October 2002 19:20:7

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Path,

    This whole thing is not about "taking sides" but about our individual responsibility to be accountable for our actions and all the more so when any of us accept a perceived position of leadership. It is about us striving to be just and fair and not hypocritical. Basically it is about us not being like the WT.

    Well said! Thank you.

    IW

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    Kelsey, this kind of thing has been going on since the year dot. It hasn't suddenly stopped after 7000 years. What do you expect a baby or 4 year old child to come forward? Sometimes it takes a while for people to come forward. I am not a silent lamb or anything to do with silent lambs but I can speak of mental and physical abuse and you know as well as I do that it goes on all the time.

  • sf
    sf

    (deleted)

    Edited by - sf on 24 October 2002 21:54:43

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Its not a matter of "taking sides." This is a matter of clearing up a very serious charge against another. The word "apology" may not be a bible word, but "seeking forgiveness" and "confronting wrong" and "righting wrongs" are subjects throughout the Bible.

    Is Derrick great or what?

    Edited by - thichi on 24 October 2002 19:31:24

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