Update on Royal Commission

by umbertoecho 40 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  OrphanCrow

  steve2: I wonder if this will lead to the organization being legally compelled to "adjust" its understanding of the 2 witness rule? So much for Jehovah leading the GB to the brighter light - in this case it would be secular authorities.
  Who'd have thought, huh?!
  vidiot: @ steve2...
  They told Irwin Zalkin that "they will never change it". Frankly, I believe it.

  I was impressed with how easily Sinclair blew that two witness rule right out of the water. Sinclair's logical reasoning put the screw to Biblical authority - when he asked Horley how come flexibility was applied to the "stoning directives" but not to the two witness rule, it wouldn't surprise me if Horley's faith was a bit shaken by that line of inquiry. Horley had no reply.

  Sinclair removed the authority of the Bible. It was perfect.

  (On another note...I would love to have Sinclair question the WTS about their "flexible" blood policy that has no real Biblical support for it.)

  vidiot: I can't help but wonder what Lorenz Riebling and the other JW- and WT-connected businessmen who back up the Org are thinking about all this...

  Well...I dunno...but this certainly does provide a smoke screen for other activities, doesn't it? As long as people are looking at this, they aren't looking at other things, are they? At least...not yet.
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  Vidiot

  @ OrphanCrow...

  Actually, I was thinking that all this scrutiny is liable to make investigators look more closely at any behind-the-scenes movers-and-shakers, and that at this point, Reibling et al might be wondering if their financial connections are really worth all the potential shit that's flying off the fan...

  ...unless, of course, they anticipated it all along, and plan to cut their losses and bugger off, leaving the hapless GB and their lawyers holding the bag.
• 

  Vidiot

  OrphanCrow - "Sinclair removed the authority of the Bible."

  Or, more accurately, he deconstructed the Watchtower's interpretation of the authority of the Bible...

  ...far more effective, IMO.
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  umbertoecho

  Sinclair is an excellent speaker and questioner. He is living proof of fair and honest authority in "that wicked world" that WTBTS loves to hammer home to all of it's believers.

  The way this Royal Commission will play out will be with the welfare of victims in mind. If WT thinks it can deceive those conducting the inquiry, then it is in for a nasty shock.

  It seems like all the pieces are falling into place at the moment, for, the society has requested more donated funds and is stream lining assemblies, cutting out the large ones that are held here in Australia. The reason given to me over the weekend, by an elder; was that there is a lack of funds and they need to cut costs.

  This elder came to see me two months ago with his wife. I did say in one of my earlier posts that this elder launched straight into his experience as a victim of abuse. I thought it was odd at the time as I had said that my interest lay in the capacity of the witnesses to prove their beliefs using only the bible.

  This elder is aware of what happened to me via my family. I wonder. Is this sudden ongoing interest in my spirituality a means to keep informed as to what I will do, or say about this commission? There will be many worried elders and those above them. They will want to know who is with them or against them. I have never had such an effort made by any elder before this recent time ( Royal Commission) Normally, I have been ignored as one who is basically lost and of no value.

  The society is up against some very well educated people who have tremendous mental faculties that are put to use in uncovering all the facts.
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  steve2

  The article includes this excerpt:

  The church has 817 congregations across Australia with over 68,000 members, a growth of 29 per cent since 1990.

  I don't have on hand the average number of publishers in Australia for 1990, but I have the number for 1998: 60,226.

  The latest JW Yearbook records the average number of publishers in Australia for 2014 as 66,484.

  So, over a period of about 17 years, the growth is "only" 10.4%.

  This does not fundamentally change the substance of the article but it corrects the wrong impression that in a period of 25 years, the Witnesses have grown by almost one-third. In fact, as a year-by-year inspection of the publisher numbers since 2000 shows, the growth is rather more modest.
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  freddo

  The two witness rule will unlikely change but I think the farthest they will ever go is;-

  Victims will be "encouraged" rather than "allowed" (previously discouraged and previous to that threatened with disfellowshipping) to report to the authorities.

  A woman will be permitted to have a female "confidant" with her - not to testify but to support.

  Children/minors can already have a parent present throughout and this should be mandatory.
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  paradisebeauty

  They are so full of s#!t, pardon my french, but I feel sick when I hear / see phrases like:

  ‘embrace God’s Kingdom under Christ’ and to ‘love God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself’

  who do they love? no one, just numbers and titles

  they do not even believe Jesus will return visibly, they want to rule the world by themselves
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  Vidiot

  hoser - "Church elders could now face criminal charges for concealment of serious indictable offences and failure to disclose sexual offences against minors, counsel assisting the commission Angus Stewart SC said. Good luck getting males to reach out now."

  Didn't you know?

  They'll just appoint more abusers. Problem solved.
• 

  Vidiot

  OrphanCrow - "...when he asked Horley how come flexibility was applied to the 'stoning directives' but not to the two-witness rule, it wouldn't surprise me if Horley's faith was a bit shaken by that line of inquiry. Horley had no reply..."

  Oh, there's a reply, all right.

  It's just that the WT reps knew that if they actually gave that reply, it'd make them - and more importantly, the WTS - look even worse.

  x

  They don't dare apply any flexibility to the two-witness rule, because - ultimately - doing so would reveal just how much of an institutionalized problem child abuse actually is amongst the JWs.

  And that is something they want to delay for as long as (in)humanly possible.
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  OrphanCrow

  Oops...I called the lawyer for the Commission "Sinclair" and his name is "Stewart". I am horrible on names. Damn...I even call my daughter by my son's name sometimes...or my bird's name. Or the dog's name...

  Oh, there's a reply, all right.

  True. But nothing that makes logical sense according to biblical interpretation.

  We know what the answer is...but Horley could never say it. He would be kicked to the curb by the WTS without a moment's hesitation.