by COJ 113 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
"Surely you are not suggesting that we do not allow discussion about Child Abuse topics here Trauma Hound?"
And where did I say that simon? Oh wait I didn't. This whole ray franz crap, has had how many threads opened up about it? And what does this have to do with abuse of children, in reality? Why absolutly nothing, it's just some big bitch fest, and I though you were better than that!
NOW RIGHT NOW someone needs to explain to Mr. Jonsonnnn that BillBowen didn't attack Ray Franz.
And direct your insults, personal attacks and complete diversions of issue toward the RIGHT PERSON.
ME!!!!!
Edited to add:
Ray Franz is a 'child abuse topic'? I don't live my life right.
Edited by - gsark on 25 October 2002 4:25:54
I rest my case your honor..."YOUR case???
ROFLOLOLOL...I thought this wasn't about YOU
Come on, sf, that's a very common expression, it's not reasonable to imply that it indicates self-centeredness.
Englishman.
Refreshing to see this issue discussed from a different perspective.
And welcome to the board, COJ.
From what i gathered from my talk with Bill, i think he isnt too happy with Ray's deliberate ignorance of the Child Abuse situation. Bill told me that when he first talked to Ray about this child abuse situation, Ray said he knew nothing about it. Bill told him what was happening and what he was doing about it. A friend of Bill then rang Ray a few days later to speak to him about it and Ray said that it was news to him and he knew nothing about it.
if anyone has a problem with Bill or Ray, why dont you contact them and sort it out, instead of moaning between yourselves.
Maybe rays just getting old and forgetting things?
Welcome to the forum, COJ!! There's no question but that your participation here is to be greatly appreciated. Perhaps you might one day update us on your recent doings.
Maybe rays just getting old and forgetting things?
TH I 'm hoping it's something simple like that. The alternative is too sad to contemplate.
Maybe rays just getting old and forgetting things?
I think that is equally insulting to Ray and not necessary. I hope I'm as bright as he is at that age!
Enough of the sniping at Ray - final warning
Some former Witnesses here in Sweden are now planning to start a media campaign about child abuse among the Witnesses, similar to the one going on in the United States. Neither I nor Rud Persson have any wish to become involved in it. Why not? Have we done or do we know about something that we are "covering up", something we "do not wish to reveal"? No. The simple reason is that we have no evidence to present against anybody, nor do we have any evidence to show that child abuse is more common among the Witnesses than in other organizations or in the community at large.
Using this reasoning, there would be no support for abuse victims of any organisations or religions at all, since they can all claim that child abuse is no more common amongst themselves than the general population. Support group for victims of paedophile priests? Why, since there is no evidence that child abuse is more prevalent among Catholics than the population in general! As the JW's say: "why are you picking on us! Look at xyz group!"
I have checked what Ray wrote for the Organization book back in 1972 on the "two eye Witness rule". I find that he did not discuss child abuse or any other particular crime, but simply referred to the apostle Pauls words at 1 Timothy 5:19 as a principle to be applied in judicial matters, emphasizing the need to get all the facts from reliable witnesses. (The Organization book, 1972, page 164) By this, Ray did not author a new policy!
But he did perpetuate an existing policy, one which has demonstrably been used to silence child abuse victims. Saying that he was merely reflecting the Apostle Paul's words is akin to a soldier claiming that he was just following orders when he bayoneted the wounded.
I find it excellent that those who have been molested and those who have evidence on such cases and of the attempts by the Society to conceal the matter, are stepping forward to reveal what they know. This is, in fact, their responsibility.
Or as the Watchtower Society said, it's up to the victims to go to the police. Not the Watchtower's problem!
Now COJ says that it's victim's responsibility to reveal what they know, but that he's certainly not going to help any support group for them. "Keep warm and well fed!"
Expatbrit
