Why did Jesus speak of a dead man as merely sleeping?Does this mean that there is no life after death?That death and sleep are actually one and the same?Lazarus himself is silent about this.After having spent four days in the tomb DEAD, he comes alive,or awakens from sleep.When we really sleep our bodies do not corrupt.They clean house so to speak and we are refreshed for another day of life.However,what about Lazarus,his body started to corrupt, for he was indeed dead,yet when Jesus resurrected him he was whole, alive again..WHERE WAS HE FOR FOUR DAYS.?And does the answer to this question answer the question "Is there life after death"? Im not asking about near death experiences.That's a whole other subject.Im wondering if the Lazarus case was unique in demonstrating Jesus' power over death,no matter how long one is dead, for he had resurrected others also. So,do we sleep,or are we alive elsewhere? Thanks for your thoughts in advance. Blueblades
Life After Death.
by Blueblades 19 Replies latest jw friends
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StinkyPantz
Or maybe it was all a grand hoax. . .
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shera
It confuses me as well.Sorry I don't have an answer for you.
I used to think about the dead sleeping,and when Jesus was being cruxified(sp?).He told the criminals,they would be in paradise with him today.
The tranfigureation,always had me confused a well.Was it just a symbloic thing to show his apostles?He was talking to Moses and Elijah?(was it moses?)
I always felt how could Jesus be talking to them if,they were asleep in death?Is there a scripture in the bible where it says that no person has entered Heaven before Jesus dies and returned to heaven?Or is that a JW teaching?
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Solace
I would love to believe in life after death.
I guess when our time comes, we will know for sure. Or not.
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AGuest
Dearest BlueBlades... the greatest of peace to you... and I have been directed by the One to whom has been given the "keys" to Death and Hades, to respond, if you will permit me. Thank you!
You ask:
Why did Jesus speak of a dead man as merely sleeping?
Because death IS merely sleep. Although the flesh dies... and returns to the ground... the spirit does not. The SPIRIT... must be destroyed. That is why the "spirits that sinned"... are awaiting JUDGMENT... and destruction... and those who "belong" to my Lord, either by a choosing or by the treatment of his brothers... are awaiting... life. The REAL life...
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Matthew 10:28 1 Peter 2:4, 5 1 Peter 3:19, 20 1 Corinthians 15:51 Revelation 6:9-11 Revelation 20:9, 11-15
Does this mean that there is no life after death?
There is indeed life... indeed the TRUE life... after death of the FLESHLY BODY... which is the "earthen vessel" or "golden bowl" or "cistern"... the earthen RECEPTACLE... which holds the celestial body... or SPIRIT. However, such life... the TRUE life (for it is 'immortal' and lives forever), is not granted to all. For SOME... after death there IS a resurrection... but to judgment... condemnation... and destruction... of the body AND the spirit. Why? Because such ones have no "covering"... for their sins... and the WAGE... or price... of sin... is death. So, if the BODY sins, which they all do... they die. However, the SPIRIT that sins... will be destroyed. That is why the angels that sinned are still in existence: they are awaiting judgment... condemnation... and destruction. For the spirit can ONLY be destroyed... by fire... from the Lake of Fire.
That death and sleep are actually one and the same?
The physical body "dies", in that it returns to the dust. The SPIRIT, however, goes to one of two places: either the world of the dead (where the Rich Man, and those who do not "belong" to the Christ go... or for those who DO "belong" to Christ... "under the altar", which is the "bosom of Abraham,"... or God. And in both places, such spirits... sleep... until they are "awakened", either by God, through Christ, via a resurrection... or by other spirit beings. Such other spirit beings, however, cannot give such ones a body. Only JAH can do that... as he did with Adam and Eve... and as He permits with those spirits who enter this realm and "put on"... flesh.
Lazarus himself is silent about this.After having spent four days in the tomb DEAD, he comes alive,or awakens from sleep.
That's not necessarily true. What IS true is that the Bible canon as we know it has no account from Lazarus. But not all things that occurred were written down, and all the things that were written down... have not be made available to us... by earthling man.
When we really sleep our bodies do not corrupt.They clean house so to speak and we are refreshed for another day of life.
That is not entirely true: some who are in coma's, etc., actually deteriorate at a much more rapid rate. Their bodies may even "curl" inward, etc. They are susceptible to even more germs and diseases and so, unlike us, actually undergo a more rapid rate of deterioration. If what YOU say is true, many, MANY folks would spend goo-gobs of money to be "hibernated" to slow the aging/death/disease process.
However,what about Lazarus,his body started to corrupt, for he was indeed dead,yet when Jesus resurrected him he was whole, alive again..WHERE WAS HE FOR FOUR DAYS?
Unlike my Lord's body, which was CHANGED... Lazarus' spirit, which spent some time "under the altar", was returned to its original vessel... or fleshly body... which my Lord HEALED and resurrected. That's it; that's all.
And does the answer to this question answer the question "Is there life after death"?
Yes, it does.
Im not asking about near death experiences.That's a whole other subject.
I didn't think that you were... and I agree, it is another entirely different subject.
Im wondering if the Lazarus case was unique in demonstrating Jesus' power over death,no matter how long one is dead, for he had resurrected others also.
YES!! You GOT it! That is how, during the LAST trumpet, those "in the memorial tombs" will come out... some to a resurrection of life, where their resurrected fleshly bodies will be "put off" and they will be given a "white robe"... a SPIRIT body... which is INCORRUPT... and others to a resurrection of judgment... and condemnation... where they will be cast... body AND SPIRIT... into the Lake of Fire... for "everlasting" destruction. For while there IS a resurrection from death of the fleshly body... there is NO coming back... from destruction of the body... AND the spirit!
So,do we sleep,or are we alive elsewhere?
YOU... are asleep... AND alive, per se... elsewhere. It is your flesh, however, that is no longer "living".
Thanks for your thoughts in advance.
You are quite welcome, but they are not MY "thoughts", but the truth that I have heard and received FROM the Truth, the One who holds the keys to Death... and Hades... and who "conquered" them both so that they no longer have any hold on HIM... or those who "belong" to him... for it is he that has ransomed them... and thus, will bring them BACK from the clutches of that one (Death) and the realm over which HE "rules" (Hades). It is what I have received, and been directed to share with you, by means of my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH... of Armies... and to whom ALL 'glory' is to be given.
Again, I bid you peace...
A slave of Christ,
SJ
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IslandWoman
BlueBlades,
You asked:
Why did Jesus speak of a dead man as merely sleeping?Does this mean that there is no life after death?That death and sleep are actually one and the same?
When Jesus resurrected the twelve year old girl he also spoke about her just being asleep as he did with Lazarus. Obviously his use of the word "sleep" was meant to imply that their death was a temporary condition just as an overnight sleep is a temporary condition. He, in planning to resurrect them, could call their death a sleep. Similar to an anesthesiologist can refer to the patient on the operating table as being asleep when in reality they may actually be closer to a death state, but will awake when he wants them to.
Jesus spoke of himself as being "the resurrection and the life," there is no life without Jesus and no resurrection without Jesus. All whom he will resurrect can be called "asleep", those he will not resurrect are truly dead.
As for a resurrection to the heavens, it would seem that would be impossible for most of mankind since most of mankind were never Christians.
I'm just trying to summarize what the Bible seems to be saying, imo. Interesting subject, thanks for bringing it up.
IW
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Francois
You know those folk back there weren't exactly on top of the latest in medical practice. Lazarus could very well have been unconscioius from a high fever, or in a slight coma, or something like that and Jesus recognized that simple fact. Which is why he states it as a simple fact: "He sleeps."
It's not really necessary to spin this up into some great mystery. Why cannot Jesus words be taken at face value rather than turn them into some type, anti-type, parable, double-entendre, metaphoric, hidden meaning what's behind door number three bullshit. The Man said Lazarus was sleeping. As far as I'm concerned then, the man was damn well sleeping and The Master woke him up.
Just because Jesus lived in a wonder seeking generation doesn't mean we have to be one too, y'know.
francois
See Moody "Life After Life" in good used and hard to find book stores near you.
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IslandWoman
Francois,
At John 11:14 Jesus said that Lazarus had died: "At that time, therefore, Jesus said to them outspokenly: 'Lazarus has died,'
IW
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AGuest
Actually, Island Woman... and may you have peace... your statement that:
Similar to an anesthesiologist can refer to the patient on the operating table as being asleep when in reality they may actually be closer to a death state, but will awake when he wants them to.
... is inaccurate. "Closer to a death state"... and death... are not the same thing. Which is why Lazarus' sister said, "Surely he must smell by now." This statement would say to ME that they knew he was dead, for a certain... and had even "prepared" his body, for he had been laid in a tomb.
Although CLOSE to a death state, true, a patient under the care of an anesthesiologist would at least still have a pulse/heart rate discernable by the doctor... and is breathing, albeit artificially. He is not dead, but being kept ALIVE... by the doctor.
You then said:
All whom he will resurrect can be called "asleep", those he will not resurrect are truly dead.
My dear one, there is NO ONE who will not be resurrected! NO one! ALL will be resurrected, either in the first resurrection, when my Lord returns, or 1,000 years later in the general resurrection. Even Adam, Eve and Judas will be resurrected, for there will be a resurrection... of the righteous... AND THE UNRIGHTEOUS. The righteous will be resurrected to LIFE; the UNrighteous, however, will be resurrected... to judgment... and, therefore, condemnation and destruction.
Adam and Eve must be included in this, because although they died IN THE FLESH... they have yet to have their SPIRITS judged... and condemned... to eternal destruction. The flesh, then, returns to the dust, which is what happened in their case. The spirit, however, MUST be destroyed... in "Gehenna", where the body AND the spirit... is brought to nothing.
The flesh... or soul... dies; however, the spirit... sleeps... and then is given a NEW body: either an incorruptible one... or "white robe"... which is a SPIRIT body (and "celestial", vs. a fleshly body, which is "terrestrial")... or a corruptible one... flesh... which can be destroyed in Gehenna along WITH the spirit that it "houses"... or "contains". The flesh... is merely a vessel, a clay "pot" in which the TRUE man... is contained. Thus, even if your fleshly body should lose its arms, its legs, its eyes... YOUR arms, legs, eyes... or what have you... the "man" that you are ON THE INSIDE... remains the same.
Again, I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
Edited by - AGuest on 27 October 2002 22:9:44
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Navigator
AGuest
These thoughts are from A Course in Miracles (Manual for Teachers). There are in direct conflict with the convoluted thoughts in the bible.
"The 'reality' of death is firmly rooted in the belief that God's Son is a body. And if God created bodies, death would indeed be real. But God would not be loving. There is no point at which the contrast between the perception of the real world and that of the world of illusions becomes more sharply evident. Death is indeed the death of God, if He is Love. And now His Own creation must stand in fear of Him. He is not Father, but destroyer. He is not Creator, but avenger. Terrible His Thoughts and fearful His image. To look on His creations is to die. "
"'And the last to be overcome will be death'. Of course! Without the idea of death there is no world. All dreams will end with this one. This is salvations's final goal; the end of all illusions. And in death are all illusions born. What can be born of death and still have life? But what is born of God and still can die? The inconsistencies, the compromises and the rituals the world fosters in its vain attempts to cling to death and yet to think love real are mindless magic, ineffectual and meaningless. God is, and in Him all created things must be eternal. Do you not see that otherwise He has an opposite, and fear would be as real as love?"
The bottom line is this: If God is real, there is no death. If death is real, there is no God! There is either a God of fear or one of Love. In this there can be no compromise. Jesus knew this and, in the case of the little girl and Lazarus, the illusion had to respond to his knowledge of the truth.