LDH - nice to see you too! You have certainly identified at least one of the major problems, in that the most prominent and fluent author exposing the Evil WT is himself still partially in denial, and is therefore by my definition a borderline apologetic still (i.e., not an apologetic - but near the line, as it is seen by me). Ray's "we are victims of victims" is just plain BS. If he is so dumb as to believe that, then perhaps denial of his own role in the whole fiendish scam has pushed him over the edge. If he is not so dumb as to actually believe that, then he is being economical with that which should not be economized.
Dear sf - HELLO!. And I shall write soon. It is just that some words are harder for me than others... sf has quite understood the present issue. Her post, above, makes all clear.
But some still did not get it, apparently. I hate spelling things out. Spoon-feeding. This is not a Kingdom Hell, you know (pre-underlined texts available at a premium price). Laziness of followers is counted upon by the Watchtower, as it allows them to perpetrate their greatest swindles and cover-ups.
Now, the anger of certain ones at me, at what I write, simply means that they do not understand. They have failed to make the connection. So rather than ask, they attack.
Even Simon, in his dear wife's virtual clothes, three times denies me.
They think I am "stirring", while it is not I who has lost my rag.
Father, father, forgive them. They know not what they do.
"They" attacked me too when I wrote the Flies/Honey Pedophile threads, even after I there demolished (with the kind help of AF and others) that dear kind Mr F iend who maintained that there would no sanction of any sort at all against a jW reporting another jW they believed had committed a crime to the authorities immediately, without involving the elders etc.
A direct, outright, barefaced, shameful, disgusting, filthy LIE, from a cheating, despicable excuse for a human being. Dear one of the "Friend" Class, who pretty much assures us that no one can be closer to Ray than he. Well, well, well, well.
If you know your Cicero: "O tempora, O mores!"
Well, the erudite and elusive F iend found that simple and direct Focus was quite capable of deconstructing his convulted apologia - and then destroying it. His imperious command and misuse of the English language was matched and trumped. On matters of logic and mathematical reasoning, he was outflanked and outgunned. A shock for him? Surely not! And, I am so repentant that words fail me.
They stopped attacking only when the Dateline and Panorama programmes confirmed, in the most public way possible, exactly what I had stated a year or whatever earlier.
Oh well, it takes a bit more than the miserable ejaculate of fools, cult apologists and stooges for a spiritually-criminal organization to get me crying "persecution, persecution".
Tell you what - I'll give them persecution.
This is the rub:
Two policies from Brooklyn (stated repeatedly, with minor variations - only major back-pedalling when we exposed their cult-evil on TV) really ENCOURAGE PEDOPHILES to the Watchtower like flies come to honey.
(1) As a jW, you must not, not, not involve secular authorities against another jW unless you have exhausted congregational avenues and had clearance from the elders - this minimizes the spoiling of the good name of God's people (akin to bringing reproach onto Jehovah). In practice, where serious offenses are involved, this means "Let us disfellowship the offender first, so we can say he is no longer a jW, before he is exposed in public" While the written rules do not specifically include criminal acts as requiring "shielding", they did not exclude them either - and the unwritten rules made it clear there was no distinction between civil litigation and criminal prosection. The key was "Bring no reproach on the name of Jehovah!".
AND
(2) At jW Star Chamber quasi-judicial proceedings, for an alleged offense by a jW to result in a "conviction" (by the elders) generally requires at least TWO WITNESSES - (AND GENERALLY TO THE SAME EVENT). Where the matter is so serious that a disfellowshipping would be the appropriate punishment, the requirement for at least two witnesses is strictly adhered to. The victim can be one of these witnesses. In child rape (and similar) cases, the perpetrator would need to be the second one, as these people do not commit their crimes in public and do not leave evidence behind. So the pedophile must confess* in order to be disfellowshipped
* Even when they confess, they may not be disfellowshipped - if they claim to show repentance, they may be let off that very day, even sent back home to their poor hapless victims for more nights of .. "love, Watchtower style".
Watchers of the Dateline and BBC Panorama programmes will know to what I refer.
One needs not be a mathematician to see that rules (1) and (2) APPLIED TOGETHER (one rule without the other would not have the effect at all - think about it - it is the two together, that is so pernicious and which constitutes the Catch-22 which leaves the pedos with their lambs: you can't go to the police until the pedo is DF, and the pedo won't be DF unless you have two witnesses, which by the nature of pedophilia will not to be to the same event - and without police-type publicity, you won't even get two witnesses - two victims - to different events) makes the Watchtower as safe a HAVEN for PEDOPHILES as is possible. A positive magnet for them. Borderline/inactive pedos within the Borg become active, and active ones outside may find out and sign up. When it comes to getting "booty", pedophiles, I read, can be exceeding smart.
Francois wrote on Oct 28, 2002 16:33:
FOCUS
Could you please state, in 50 words or less, what you are trying to accomplish with your posts? {sundry insults by Francois snipped}
Well, Francois, I shall not embarrass you by demanding why you are NOW asking this question on Oct 28, 2002 16:33 after posting your thread here on Oct 28, 2002 10:18 - in which you abuse me, insult me and even try to solicit a mass-shunning of me, and then found you had no support (not even from Prisca, who is either no longer smarting from much-needed correction administered by myself in earlier days, or..) and instead were criticized/corrected (explicitly by sf, VeniceIT and waiting, probably more subtly by others, LB? refiners fire?).
So, you tell others to shun and ignore me (those jW habits die so hard, eh?) but then four hours later, observing you have had no support, start talking to/at me again?
One rule for you, one for the rank-and-file? Haha, Elder Francois! It does not work that way. You are outranked. I am afraid that over here, I am Mr Jaracz. (Hey - why did no one ask whether that famous WT database has on it the name of T... No, no, of course not. They'd have deleted the entry, now, wouldn't they?) And Mr Adams. And Mr Henschel. Bombastic "Booz" Judge Rutherford too. And old Chuckie "Child-Molester" Russell too, guiding online events from beyond the "vail". Sorry!
But I'll be charitable, and conclude that the francs/euros have now began to drop in your head. It dawned on you that I know some things which you failed to notice, and both Bill Bowen and I were too polite to UNDERLINE in our posts.
Francois wrote:
... in 50 words or less
Correct is "50 words or fewer".
Easy.
Start here:
RAY FRANZ WAS AN EXPOSITOR OF POLICY (2) ("TWO WITNESSES").
End here.
The bits of text the elders quote from (and, in more modern times, what the Flock book borrows from), may well have been written by the person who RIGHT NOW DENIES THAT THERE IS ANY PEDOPHILE PROBLEM IN THE WATCHTOWER above the level found in other religions.
Does the centime/cent drop, Francois?
See the significance of what Policy (2) was?
Now, think.
Notes: (a) Expositor is not the same as Originator. But some expositors are more competent than others.
(b) Of all on the Writing Staff at the time, Ray Franz was the most competent - in my opinion and in the opinion of his uncle and his uncle's successor. So he got trusted with writing a lot of key material.
(c) Writing Staff have a lot of leeway. The Watchtower believes in making money and putting out books and ragazines. Precisely what gets written in the pulp is of lesser concern (until something explodes in their faces).
I could say a lot more. I do not wish to mud sling. I want to explain an otherwise curious omission... for those who can read, I already did.
Dissension is often a good thing. We, after all, are not a mindless robotic Borg. But Ray's said denial is, without question, hurting the Silentlambs movement. I am presenting an additional fact (not just a Watchtower-style "fact"), and leave it to others to judge for themselves whether Ray's denial is influenced (I don't say tainted, because Ray is a good man, and being a judge in one's own cause is too hard for most mortals) by that fact.
I reiterate: I have both love and respect for Ray Franz, whose contribution to the anti-WTBTS movement is incalculable. But, I cannot entirely forgive him his role in Satan's Organization. If you must see a contradiction therein, so be it. I do not. Nor does Ray Franz, you may conclude from many of his comments reproduced in this site.
1. COLLECT FACTS.
2. THINK
3. Only then, react and judge.
Saves a lot of embarrassment in the long run if these steps are followed, in that order, with no omissions. Experience is a most excellent teacher, but she is so frightfully expensive.
A little hint to Francois: say "SORRY", next time, rather than blustering. Better yet, ensure there is no next time: research the poster and read his posts before flaming away. I am only a gentle pussy cat, snoozing away, allowing many to tweak my tail. I do not doubt either your sincerity and your well-founded anti-WTBTS sentiment and distaste. I disfellowshipped the GB long before you, or Joshua1992/J92/Bibleman, or Bill Bowen, did.
A little hint to some others: Be not followers of men any longer, as some of you who were jWs were. Whoever the men: Franz. Bowen. However worthy. Focus. Or not. Do not leap to the defense of your champion. Leap to the defense of righteous CAUSES instead.
A little hint to Ray Franz (reprise): Please, get thee to the righteous side on this issue. You did not have the right crystal ball then, just an aluminum pot, I guess. But now, no crystal ball is needed. Do not let the silly sycophants around you cloud your mind on this. Please. They mean well, but most of them are not too bright.
--
Focus
(Mark Antony Class)
ps: IslandWoman, you are having fantasies that I also post here under some female handle or pseudonym. I have no objection to your naming it. kats won't either, I'm sure. Ever since the identity "Focus" was created on this site, I have never used any other name to post here. And I am here only upon rare occasion. The only evidence I have seen of sexual/gender confusion is on the part of our dear host Simon, but I am confident he will soon overcome his difficulties with identities, just as dear Greg Stafford did on H2O (though with some grammatical help from me). As long as your fantasies are healthful and "upbuilding" ones, IslandWoman, please feel free to have them. I, for one, would not wish to stand in your way (or under or over you, for that matter, irrespective of whoever is facing sternwards - just in case you misunderstood).
As far as you are concerned, IslandWoman, some seem to believe that you have a few identities here, or are part of some organized+synchronized group. I noticed some strange things when a thread I had started a while earlier happened to get two bad votes within a minute or so of eachother and of your own post to that thread. How quaint! Coincidences, I am sure. "What is often the motive of those who criticize .. those taking the lead?" - The Watchtower, March 15, 1986 p16 etc. Yes, I was one of those who led the Exodus out of H2O to this site - but the excesses and idiocies of the half-educated noderator101 Class there had made H2O intolerable (deleting whole threads unfairly and without warning, spewing their own venom while hypocritically censoring others, and abusing their position in other ways). Putting the stable in order was called for repeatedly, and not only or mainly by me. Well, we warned you. And when my people left Egypt, H2O was left with... Bibleman. So now the castrated censors and impotent moderators are here, sniping away bitterly. Contrast the fiasco that H2O became, with no conversion intake possible, with the class act run by the OBEDient Class at Witn*t. As for myself... I am part of no group, and represent only my own views.
Edited by - Focus on 31 October 2002 1:12:46
