JW's Should Start Their Own Country!

by nonjwalltheway 44 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  Pistoff

  undercover wrote:

  The United States of America is a free country after all. Freedom of religion is one of the things that the founding fathers made sure was available to all. No one says you have to vote. No one says you have to be politcally involved.

  I agree, of course. What though, of a religion that does NOT approve of those freedoms among it's people? There is NO freedom of though, speech within the org; I know, I am still in it, though not by much. If I said what I thought, I would be df'd in an instant.
  Can we open this idea and discuss it?

  Should a religion that denies it's members the freedoms inherent in the US be allowed to exist?

  I have a real hard time with this one; on the one hand, pure application of the principle says yes, but on the other hand allowing a faith to exist that undermines the concept is damaging to a democracy.

  I guess the real answer lies in ALL people being informed, educated and aware of mind control techniques. Ironically, I grew up in the truth and it has taken me 30 years to break away from the mind control.

  Any thoughts??

  Pistoff
• 

  czarofmischief

  Ah, Bella,

  You're so sweet-sounding. And your statements, like "I want what's best for everyone in this world" reveal your idealistic, if naive, perspective. You are looking for something personal, you say. Could it be that you are not satisfied with the JW world view? I'm not surprised. I wasn't either.

  Why are we all here and tossing negativity about the organization like we do? Simple: the Internet has liberated us from the isolation that the organization tries to impose on its former members. We can get together, compare notes, support each other, and above all, say to each other "Hey, my gut instinct about this religion was right! These people are whacko!" If you haven't been disfellowshipped yet, it is a traumatic, character defining experience. Who are you? You don't know until you crack the chrysalis of the JW's and emerge into the world you've always feared.

  You have a wonderful viewpoint about the need for a loving relationship with God. But ask yourself honestly, are you motivated chiefly by love, or by fear? Do you truly enjoy your life and everything on this earth like you say you want us to, or do you constantly have to hold yourself back because of fear of Armageddon? Maybe you are getting tired of being intimidated by a bunch of New Yorkers who don't even know you and your situation. Maybe you don't like the sound of "just around the corner" or yet another Watchtower lesson on how we must "respect divinely given authority."

  I agree, the people actually are pretty nice, but in all honesty - what is the point of staying with a lying, manipulative organization just because you like some of the people? I suggest you pray about it, but don't be surprised if the answer is to run like crazy away from the nuthouse.

  Besides, Jesus used strong language that may have been the equivalent of a cuss word - calling the Pharisees "offspring of vipers" and all of that - could be like calling someone a sonofabitch today. And he lost his temper. And made a ton of wine for people who were already intoxicated. Try reading Ezra Pound's "The Goodly Fere" for a different perspective on the Lord.

  Anyway, Bella, welcome to the board, and I hope you find what you are looking for. Even if it's not what you expect.

  CZAR
• 

  Pistoff

  bella wrote:

  I don't appreciate it when people judge other people or even a religion just because it doesn't fit into their schedule or lifestyle.

  Speaking for myself, bella, lifestyle and schedule had nothing to do with it. I pioneered in high school, was a servant for years and did my best to raise my children in the truth.

  I feel, though, that the truth left me and not the other way around.
  I would have sworn to anyone that I had not been lied to about anything in the organization, so imagine my shock at seeing that the society tried to cozy up to Hitler; that they changed the blood policy many times and did not tell anyone, that many died not knowing they could take homopheliac treatments or RH factors; that NOW we can evidently take hemoglobin solutions, the holy grail when it comes to keeping someone alive who lacks blood count.

  And they are lying their faces off in the sex abuse issue.

  Before you condemn us, look at what has taken us here, please.

  I am not happy to be here; i miss the good old feeling, but cannot listen to lies anymore.
• 

  undercover

  What though, of a religion that does NOT approve of those freedoms among it's people? There is NO freedom of though, speech within the org; I know, I am still in it, though not by much. If I said what I thought, I would be df'd in an instant.
  Can we open this idea and discuss it?

  Should a religion that denies it's members the freedoms inherent in the US be allowed to exist?

  Good points. But if you ban one religion because of it's non-political views, then it would open up the government to ban religions that are decidely un-American. Are muslims un-American? Or just the radical muslims? Who decides? And here's a scary thought. Ban one religion and then another follows. Then another. Always a new excuse by the government. And then guess what. Babylon the Great has fallen. The world's governments have turned on the great harlot and devoured her. Where have we heard that before?

  The Society seems to have lightened up on the voting issue though. I don't remember which WT is was, but it seemed to infer that voting was a conscience decision. Is this because of new light, or because they don't want trouble from the governments?

  I'm not defending the WTS, I'm coming to grips myself with all my years of being duped, but I don't want to over-react and become one who hates them so bad that I lose sight of reason and fairness.
• 

  teejay

  A country (or STATE or even CITY) made up of only JWs? You gotta be kidding! Such a place would self-destruct in less week. Who would perform all the civil services needed to keep the thing going? Think about it: no police, no fire protection, no street maintenance, no banking/financial services, no doctors or hospitals, no schools... I mean, my goodness! The list is endless. It takes people with college edumications to do all that kind of stuff!

  Then too, since there would be no armed services to protect their pacifist asses from hostile neighbors, how long would do you think it be before apostate hordes over-run the joint and commenced to rape and pillage? You know Jehovah wouldn't lift a finger to help them. He's got things all set for later...

  ... in The New Order .
• 

  Bella

  Well, you know, I feel as though many of you are ganging up on me and trying to change my mind about my religion. To be honest, I never in a million years would give up what I believe in because of pressure or because I agreed with other people that this religion is wrong. Because i don't agree with any of you. I don't hate my religion...I love it. I have found happiness being in this organization, and that's really all that matters. And just to let you know I am 18 years old, I grew up in the truth too, my grandpa is an elder and my grandma is full time pioneer. I also have several friends who've gone to bethel. But I have been through a lot of crap in my early teen years. So much stuff has happened to me because I thought that I could do whatever I wanted and get away with it. I thought my religion was strict and unfair. But then I realized that I was VERY unhappy doing the things that I thought would make me happy. Trust me when I say that I have commited every sin known to man, except to kill a person. And I learned from all of my mistakes. But please don't assume that this religion is what pushed me to do the things I did, it wasn't because it was strict. For the most part it was because I saw what worldly people were doing and it looked fun and I wanted to do it too. SO I DID. And in the end I almost messed up my entire life, completely. I almost lost my life, I almost lost my family and friends, and I almost lost my whole future career...but most importantly I lost my friendship with GOD. It took a lot for me to change my ways and become the person I wanted and needed to be. If you're happy being in whatever religion you're in then by all means keep doing what you're doing. Because I'm happy being who I am and I would never expect for anybody to change me. We, Jehovah's Witnesses don't try to change who people are, rather , we try to give them the hope of a better life. But if this upsets you then stick to what you know because we're not forcing anybody to change themselves. And, yes, voting, and tatoos, and piercings, and getting drunk, and having sex before marriage are all a conscience decision. It's up to you, whatever you wanna do. But doing those things means losing a friendship with God because he doesn't approve of those things. Right now I'm only doing what God asks of me...."spread the truth aright".

  If I come into contact with people who just don't want to listen to me then I won't push it. But it seems to me that everyone here wants me to come back and keep posting these messages because you keep posting replies to my messages knowing good and well that I'll just come back and try to explain things. I cannot and will not give up an oppurtunity like this. If no one here wants to hear what I have to say then PLEASE let me know and I'll never come back here again. The only reason I came here, like I said before, is because I was looking for something personal and I stumbled onto this site. I wasn't looking for a way out and I wasn't looking for trouble. I was looking for the actual JW web site, not just some message board website about JW's. So please excuse me if I've caused any kind of commotion here. I think the best thing for me to do right now like one of you said is to just ignore this site because it's not right being here. There are too many non-believers who are dissing on JW's and I cannot try to convince all of you at once. One person can't do this alone. Jesus could've done it because he was perfect but I am not. Please just repsond to this so I know if any of you are interested in getting more answers. And if so then please leave me your e-mail address and I would more than happy to answer any kind of questions that you might have about JW's. But I just don't want anyone e-mailing me if you're gonna disagree with everything that I try to explain. I would appreciate it if you could listen to me as I have done for you.
• 

  PurpleV

  But doing those things means losing a friendship with God because he doesn't approve of those things

  This is exactly the point. Who are you, or your organization, to presume to tell us what would make us lose God's friendship?

  We, Jehovah's Witnesses don't try to change who people are, rather , we try to give them the hope of a better life

  There are quite a few here that would disagree mightily with that statement.

  When you become a JW you have to give up non-believing relatives and friends, risk dying of blood loss, lose your career aspirations, shelve college, and follow a myriad of man-made regulations about how you can dress, groom, have (marital) sex, what kind of jobs you can have, what kind of music to listen to, what kind of car to drive, I could go on and on. That's not changing a person? Those are MAN-MADE rules, not "what God requires."

  I truly hope you see the real light someday.
• 

  teejay

  I apologize to the board for all the typos and grammatical errors that occurred in my previous post. I wish I could excuse myself by saying that I was in a hurry, but the fact is... I actually took my time (as always). I don't know *what* happened.

  Still, my original point is valid--BELLA!!:

  a community of JWs--whether it's a neighborhood, village, city, state or country--couldn't exist. Could not / WOULD not work. AND YOU KNOW IT.

  The phrases "a working and functional community" and "Jehovah's Witnesses" are not terms that logically go together in the same sentence. Not without god--a real, LIVING god--somehow being in the mix. And this is no slam on JWs.

  Or god.

  Btw...

  ... anybody seen any evidence of god lately?

  Me neither.

  ===================

  btw, Bella...

  ... no one's "ganging up" on you. It would take a buncha perverts to gang up on a 18 yr old, and there ain't no stinkin' perverts 'round here.

  Well..., then again...
• 

  IslandWoman

  Bella,

  You wrote:

  But it seems to me that everyone here wants me to come back and keep posting these messages because you keep posting replies to my messages knowing good and well that I'll just come back and try to explain things. I cannot and will not give up an oppurtunity like this.

  No one here Bella, needs you to "explain things". Many of us have been JWs for longer than you've been alive. If people keep responding it's because this is what we do.

  Now, if you are happy with your religion and feel that you have reached a point in your life where you have made a decision independent of your parents and your upbringing, a decision of your own making to remain a Witness then I commend you for your individuality.

  I also would advise that you leave this place, pronto! The longer you stay the greater the likelihood you will leave your religion. It is with good reason the Watchtower Society tells you to keep away from places like this!

  Think carefully before proceeding.

  IW
• 

  teejay

  Pardon my feisty mood, IW,

  .. but I must say that your parting advice to my new friend Bella ("Think carefully before proceeding") has extremely little weight.

  See... thought is based on a stockpile of information that is available to the thinker. In Bella's case, that cache of info is -- from your and my standpoint -- a bit "flawed", shall we say? Thinking (i.e, relying on said flawed database, in Bella's case) would inexorably lead to one conclusion: stay exactly where you are. Leave those "apostates" alone.

  The solution for Bella, to my way of thinking, is to live. If you are happy, stay happy. If later on you feel the urge to see things differently? Listen to that inner voice. Either way, Bella has friends here who care about her... and all the Bellas of the world.