by Dizzy Cat 23 Replies latest jw friends
Hi there
Not my usual post - but can any of you reference any material for me that highlights 597 BCE a relevant date, rather than 607 BCE.
An old friend phoned this morning (who is a JW still) and wanted to know about alternate chronology, aside from what the WTS teach.
Any info' appreciated !
cheers
Many thanks mate !
I did mean 587 - honestly (blush) ....
Information forwarded to friend !
Lol 597...I never even noticed, in anyways your chronology is not quite as bad as theirs
Brum
One of the most important dates upon which the Watchtower Society build their own dating system is 607 B.C.E. This is the date that Pastor Russell originally claimed Jerusalem was destroyed. The Society has never changed their mind on the accuracy of this inherited date.
It is by counting from 607 B.C.E. as the beginning of the Gentile times that they arrive at 1914. They calculate the reference in Daniel 4:16 of seven times to be seven lots of 360, the number of days in a Jewish year. This comes to 2,520 years. Counting from 607 B.C.E. the date 1914 is arrived at. If 607 B.C.E. is not the starting point, then the date 1914 is of no significance.
All other important dates in which the Society claims to have featured as a fulfilment of prophecy are calculated by working from 1914. The three and a half years are added to arrive at 1918, when they say the spirit of God entered into them and revived their work, appointing them as the faithful and discreet slave. This was also the year the chosen ones were resurrected to heaven.
We could just take the Society's word for it that Jerusalem fell in 607 B.C.E. Then again, given their record with dates, I think it would be sensible to check. Listed below are a few of the numerous references to Jerusalems fall:
The final destruction of the city (Jerusalem) was in 586 B.C.E. (Light From the Ancient Past Jack Finnegan Page 223)
Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem in 586 B.C.E. (The Encyclopaedia Americana Volume 16 Page 31)
Finally, in the year 586 B.C.E. Jerusalem itself was taken.(The Story of Ancient Nations W.L. Westerman Page 69)
On the 7th day of the fifth month 586 B.C.E. Jerusalem was destroyed.(Encyclopaedia Britannica Volume 15 Pages 383)
Jerusalem fell in 586 B.C.E. (Yale Oriental Series Researches Vol. XV)
In July 586 B.C.Ea breach was made in the wall of Jerusalem. (History of the Hebrews F.K. Saunders)
Any encyclopaedia can be checked for further confirmation.
As it is clear that the real date for Jerusalems fall is 586 B.C.E. and not 607 B.C.E., all the other important Watchtower dates are without foundation. A rumour of this nature existed when I was a Witness and I had been to the library and checked every reference book available and confirmed that this was one more false date to add to the list.
One of the most important dates upon which the Watchtower Society build their own dating system is 607 B.C.E. This is the date that Pastor Russell originally claimed Jerusalem was destroyed. The Society has never changed their mind on the accuracy of this inherited date.
A minor pedant point.....
N.H. Barbor/C.T. Russell's original starting point was 606BC. Both failed to account for the fact that one cannot simply subtract 606 from 2520 when the boundary between BC and AD is crossed.
In one of the slickest literary sleight-of-hands I've ever seen, this was changed to 607 in the early 1940's
There is a post on this site somewhere that show what date various scholars have set for the destruction of the temple and city. This list is pages and pages long and includes the name of the scholar and the date he set. There is some introductory materials as well. Perhaps someone will know where this post is and will let you know. Just attempting to jog some memories with this one.
ft
By the way, if anybody is looking for some of what Russell originally said, several of his "Studies in the Scriptures" are online, hosted by the North Seattle Bible Students at:
Look under the "Library" link. All the original 606 stuff is there. Interestingly enough, he dated the ending point to the time when Cyrus freed the Jews, not when they actually got back, as the WTBS claims. When, in fact, 70 years ended at or before Babylon was overthrown (Jeremiah 25: 11 - nations shall SERVE Babylon and verse 12 -after 70 years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon).
History says Babylon was overthrown in 539. History also tells us that Nebuchadnezzar's father, Nabopolasar freed his people from the Assyrians in 609 BC and thus took over - his land and surrounding lands. That's your 70 years right there. The 70 years that "these nations" will SERVE Babylon. And at the end of those 70 years, Babylon was overthrown, exactly as the Bible says.
Note also 2 other 70-year periods in the Bible. One in Isaiah applies to Tyre, so discount it. There are also 70-year periods mentioned in Daniel 9 and Zechariah 1 and 7. These are all either saying 70 years still hasn't ended or has just ended. These are during the reign of Darius, who history says reigned from 522 to 486 BC. Zechariah 7 talks about the 4th year of Darius and "these past 70 years" or something like that. His fourth year (assension, 1,2,3,4) is in 518 BC. Back up 70 years, you come to 588BC, when Nebuchadnezzar first laid siege to Jerusalem (defeating it 1.5 years later either in 587 or 586).
Even if you don't buy the 70-year chronolgies in Jeremiah, this one starts in 588 and extends way into the time after the Jews return to Jerusalem. How can this date be explained? What triggered the start of THIS 70 year period if the Jews were safely tucked away in Babylon at the time? Maybe the JWs twist that too so that Darius ruled 20 years earlier or something - haven't checked yet.
Basic dates are:
609 - Nabopolassar frees his people and begins to take over the surrounding nations
605 - Nebuchadnezzar beings ruling
588 - Nebuchadnezzar begins to lay seige to Babylon
587 or 586 - Nebuchadnezzar conquers Jerusalem
539 - Babylon is overthrown by Cyrus
538 or 537, Jews return
518 - another 70 year period ends
I'm curious as to why no one has yet referenced "The Gentile TImes Reconsidered" by Carl Olaf Jonsson. It is a pretty fast read, unless you find yourself trying to follow the discussion of the ancient tablets.
It is a discussion of the timelines, set in Jonsson's battles with the anti-apostacy inquisitions of the late 70's, early 80's
I got mine from Commnetary Press. But I'm looking for an ad for the book at the Watchtower Store right at the top of this page, right now. Go ahead, order it.
- Buster
Dizzy Cat,
I have the Watchtower chronology compared to all the historical evidence in an easy to understand format. There are 20 pages of it but I could send it you as an e-mail attachment if you are interested. I am at: [email protected].
The info is good when discussing the subject with Witnesses because it compares Watchtower doctrine, history and the Bible in easy to follow sections.
Anyway, let me know.
link
(edited to say, I could also post it to you)
Edited by - link on 2 November 2002 13:46:59
