by Mr Bean 48 Replies latest watchtower bible
This is unbelievable!!! I was hoping to get into some serious discussion and no one even tried to give one very solid argument for the Bible. And people have lost their lives to protect the Bible and many will still lose their lives.
Unbelievable!!!
No wonder that the term religion is never associated with the healthy mind and 'religion' is regarded as opium for masses.
Peace
I really find this a sad discussion by people who have far more opinions on the subject of the Bible than knowledge about it. Unfortunately, there is no attempt here to understand that it is possible to have great respect for the biblical tradition without taking an inerrantist position on the Scriptures. I find fundamentalist teachings with regard to the Bible simply nonsense, whether promoted by Baptists, Witnesses, Pentecostals or whatever. But I have the greatest resepect for many Catholic, Neo-Orthodox and some few Liberal theologians and biblical scholars who take very different, but positive, attitudes toward Scripture.
Jim Penton
"I really find this a sad discussion by people who have far more opinions on the subject of the Bible than knowledge about it. Unfortunately, there is no attempt here to understand that it is possible to have great respect for the biblical tradition without taking an inerrantist position on the Scriptures"
I don't think a person needs a lot of knowledge about the Bible to see it reflects badly on God. Common sense tells you slaughter of people by a loving God is inhumane.
I have trouble respecting a book claimed to be of God and a guide for ALL mankind if it is indeed NOT a book inspired by him. This would make the book a lie. I don't respect lies.
Jim,
Do you feel the same way about the 'Book of Mormon' or the 'Koran'? What about the Hindu Veda sacred scriptures?
Joseph Smith's claim to some unfound 'gold tablets' is just as strong a claim as Moses tablets on Sinai.
Some refer to the historicity of the Bible as proof of god's hand. Yet every other sacred scripture can do so as well.
One thing for certain about all these writing's. It appear's that throughout the ages, mankind has been blessed (or cursed) with fella's like modern Steven Spielberg, L.Ron Hubbard, Nostradamus, men with vivid imaginations, able to verbalise and write thier musings with dramatic flair.
Atributing thier god's inspiration or even interest is nothing new, or even surprising, considering the time and context of life style they lived.
Undue respest or admiration for anything in writing, gives rise for somebody to make it into a religion or even more far fetched, a profession....which actually generates income for the believer.
Danny
edited for Ps: Respect for tradition is one thing, devotion to hour's of study of a book with no real sound basis for belief, may well in fact be................A TOTAL WASTE OF THE LITTLE TIME ONE HAS available.
Edited by - DannyBear on 13 November 2002 8:23:7
have great respect for the biblical tradition
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Yep I like that tradition about the "Coochie" test that women had to take NO MENTION of such a test for men, could it be cause it was written by men for men?
just asking
JT,
You are champion for women's rights.
I think Mrs. JT has found a good soul mate.
It took me several year's to get rid of the 'bible based'..........Me Man YOU lowly woman attitude. Although I had been leaning that way even before leaving the 'mens club' local wtbsymca.
Danny
I find fundamentalist teachings with regard to the Bible simply nonsense, whether promoted by Baptists, Witnesses, Pentecostals or whatever. But I have the greatest resepect for many Catholic, Neo-Orthodox and some few Liberal theologians and biblical scholars who take very different,
this comments highlights the problem with believers of the bible it all depends on which side of the bible you stand -
I find Catholic, Neo-Orthodox and some few Liberal theologians and biblical scholars teachings with regard to the Bible simply nonsense. But I have the greatest resepect for Baptists, Witnesses, Pentecostals or whatever.
and that is why many non-believers just laugh at BOTH OF THEM since they both think they got the Inside Track to God
you got to love religion, everyone feels that god is on my side and not on yours
The Bible is more than merely a moral code, it is more than a book in the same line with Aesop's fables, it is more than a history book. Yet at the same time it is all of these and much more. I believe that it is the word of God as directed by the Holy Spirit to man. Being Catholic, I also believe that God has spoken to man through traditions and that not all that Jesus taught was written down so that traditions that do not contradict the Bible's teachings are also holy.
The Bible cannot be logically compared to the Book of Morman. The Bible was written by many men over thousands of years. It chronicles the histroy of a people from a theological perspective. It's accuracy has been proven through archeology and through the test of time. The Jewish people, who throughout their history have strived to preserve their culture and their past viewed the Old Testament writings as accurate. Joesph Smith wrote the Book of Morman by himself and than pronounced it to the world. Archeology has proven time and time again that it is in error. It was not written at or near the time of the alleged events, instead it was claimed to have been dictated to him by the angel about events that took place thousands of years before.
I agree that before anyone who thinks they are a skeptic and dismisses the Bible out of hand, they should read Lee Stobel's "The Case for Christ". He raises alot of good points and makes even the strongest skeptic pause. He himself was an atheist trying to disprove the existence of Jesus when he began his research. The journey led him to believe.
As for the idea that many years passed before the teachings of Jesus were written down, this cannot be looked at from the perspective of our immediate society. It must be looked at from the perspective of the times. In terms of ancient history, the fact that we have writings about the life and teachings of Jesus a mere thirty years after his death is remarkable. For example, the first bibliography about Mohammud (sp) was written over three hundred years after his death. An equal time span passed before there was a bibliography about Alexander the Great. Jesus walked the earth when most people were illiterate and when history and teaching was passed down orally in a very accurate manner. The reason that people started writing about Jesus so soon is a testament to his life and its profound impact. The thought is that men who witnessed the events or who learned from men who were witnesses wrote down what they knew before they died off.
Also, the New Testament is one of the most throughly preserved ancient wrtings that we have. There are over 5000 pieces of New Testament writings that date back to the first and second century. For ancient writings that is a remarkable number. For example, the earlist version we have of Homer is dated hundreds of years after it was written. Yet people do not questions it is an accurate version of the original.
God Bless
As for the Bible's treatment of woman, I disagree with the view that it treats woman as a second class citizen. Jesus's teachings uplifted women and showed them tremendous respect. First, his Mother Mary is considered holy and he was obedient to her. His first miracle was done at her insistence. He took steps to take care of her as he was dying on the cross. Second, he tells men that they must be true to their wives, be faithful to them, not to commit adultry and to love them as much as he loved the church ( in other words, be ready to give their lives for them). Third, the first people who saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and who are given the task of spreading the news are women. Fourth, he protected the woman who as cought committing adultry from being stoned to death which was the law of the time.Fifth, he showed respect and love to the woman of the day who were shunned by society such as Mary Magdalene and the woman at the well.
The Old Testament also includes women in heroic roles such as Rachel, Sarah and Esther. They are protrayed as women of virtue and are shown tremendous respect.
To say that the Bible mistreats women is to ignore all of these aspects of its teachings.
God Bless
RWC,
*** It chronicles the histroy of a people from a theological perspective. It's accuracy has been proven through archeology and through the test of time.***
Theological is the issue. It is the blatant assertion's by the writer's of the bible, that thier god(s) (for the benefit of trinitarians), were speaking through them. Even if the individual author's did not lay claim to such, other 'theologians' made the inference for them.
This idea of archeology upholding the bibles authenticity is a lame duck perspective, as regards it inspiration.
Millions of Mormon's can and will argue with you on your simple dismissal of thier sacred scripture. Again you provide the almost bigoted, if not outright elitist view 'our's is better than your's'. For almost everything you have claimed for the bible, can be applied to most other sacredly held scirpture.
So what you avoid stating, is the obvious; One must have faith 'Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence', that the bible is God's word.
If it is in fact the Almighty God's attempt at communication with his creation, no excuses, or simplifications can be offered for it's obvious contradictions and inaccuracy.
Danny
