The Bible - inerrant word of God? (page 5)

CoolBreeze

Here is sompething I came across a while back while I was researching the origins of the Bible.

WARNING:This may make some fundies red in the face.

Anton

Perry

I do not like calling the Bible the Word of God. Nowhere in the Scriptures is any book called the Word of God. The Word of God is, however, Jesus Christ, who brought a message of love and salvation to mankind.

Interesting Jim.

Thank You.

Numbers Chapter 5:11-28 is the test for the unfaithful wife. It was to be imposed when the husband felt she had been unfaithful yet she did not admit it and there were no witnesses. It is clear that the test is largely symbolic but there is no doubt a belief that God would intervene to show the truth. If nothing happened the women would be vindicated.

Purity was very important to the Jewish people. The verses before talk about expulsion form the camp for both men and women. They also talk about both men and women paying restitution for the harm they had done to others. So it is not inconceivable that if the test proved that the woman was unfaithful that theman would be punished as well.

I do admit that it does sound alot like Monty Pyton and the Holy Grail tests for a witch, but it was written for a particular time and I do believe that there could very well be a supernatural component to it.

I think that it is in line with the overall theme of punishment for wrongdoing. The focus on bad behavior and not on the sexes.

That is also why I do not think that me listing a line of verses taht shows how men are treated is double talk. The Bible is clear that the focus in a persons acts, both good and bad, not on their sex.

Dutchie

RWC,

So it is not inconceivable that if the test proved that the woman was unfaithful that theman would be punished as well.

Please, you are adding your thoughts to the Bible. No where in those verses does it say that a man, any man, will be punished if the wife is found unfaithful. Let's try to stick with just what the scriptures tell us and the scriptures say that the woman's name will be cursed if she is found unfaithful.

I honestly don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse or if you really believe what you are saying. The scriptures clearly state that the woman should be in subjection to the man. The woman is not allowed to teach in the congregation. The woman must cover he head in subjection to the man. It just goes on and on. Women in the Bible are chattel and you deny this and say that there is equality among the genders? I'd like to know what translation you are reading from, because its vastly different from mine.

gumby

Perry,

I do not like calling the Bible the Word of God. Nowhere in the Scriptures is any book called the Word of God. The Word of God is, however, Jesus Christ, who brought a message of love and salvation to mankind.

If the Bible ISN'T the word of God.......then is Jesus for real. Were it not for the Bible you would not even know about him. For Christians to believe in and promote Jesus.....yet deny the Bible is God's word has baffled me.

If it isn't God's word.....how is it you can put so much faith in a man who was promoted by MEN?

Allah, Buddah, and other icons are worshipped too and MEN promoted them. How would Christ be superior if God did not ordain him as above all others in his Word?

I am not supporting the Bible in this statement.....only wonder how people view things as yourself.

RWC

Dutchie,

I am referring to the verses preceding the one we were discussing. Numbers 5:5- When a man or a woman wrongs another in any way and so is unfaithful to the Lord, that person is gulity and must confess the sin he has committed. He must make full restitution for his wrong...

The verse is clear that it applies equally to both sexes, so if a man does something wrong he would be punished. Jewish law made it clear tht adultry by both men and women was wrong. Exodus 20:14. Jesus expanded the actual act to lusting after another women in his heart. Matthew 5:27

The Jewish faith and Chrisitianity place a strong emphasis on a chaste marriage, by both spouses. A man is to love his wife as much as Jesus loved the Church, to the point of giving his life for her. That is clearly showing women respect.

A reading of the covered head of the women must be taken in the context of which it was written. During Paul's day, men prayed with their haed uncovered as a sign of reverence and respect. Women prayed with their head covered as a sign of modesty and immodest women were considered immoral. The essence is that both men and women wer to show respect, but in different ways.

Yes the Bible does say that man is the head of the household, particulalry the spiritual head. But that does not mean he can treat his wife with disresepct or as his chattel as you claim. He has entered into a scred covenant with her, as the Catholics claim, a sacrament that was instituted by God and Jesus. With his role comes great responsibility and obligations. He must guide his family in a Chrisitan manner, he must show his wife undying love and fidelity and he must take care of her and protect her. Does that mean he cannot portect and take care of herself? Of course not. But if a man is to have a Chrisitian marriage he obligates himself to follow these rules.

The same is true for the speaking in the Church. You find this in 1 Corinthians 14:34. Paul was writing to the Corinthians. Prostitution associated with pagan religions has been theroizied as the reason for this instruction. Regardless, Paul in other contexts indicated women would be involved in the worship - Acts 16: 14-15, Acts 18:26. One of the heros of the early church was Priscilla who cared for Paul and taught with him in her home. It certainly does not mean that women were not important nor wouldn't be involved in building the Church.

It is a shame that you have a view that the Bible degrades women. I would suspect that you have been subjected to hat type of behavior in the name of the Bible, but I believe tha it couldn't be furhter from the truth.

By the way, I use the New International Version Disciple's Study Bible, the American Catholic Bible and the Ryrie Study Bible

God Bless

Dutchie

RWC,

The Jewish faith and Chrisitianity place a strong emphasis on a chaste marriage............

Yes, but which gender would be put to death for commiting adultery?

JT

i do admit that it does sound alot like Monty Pyton and the Holy Grail tests for a witch

WHEN pressed on the issue he too even has to concede it sounds STUPID

Yet he turns right around after using his common sense and put it on the shelf and leaves it there

actually he demostrates the problems that believers have, they are required to SUPPRESS their common sense for the sake of the cause

sounds like what many of us did as jw

HOW SAD

RWC

Since when is Monty Python common sense? My point was that to us it might sound a little odd, but that does not mean that it isn't true or that there is some supernatural component to the exercise.

There is no need to supress what you beleive to be common sense in order for me to have faith in God. In fact, "common sense" is so subjective that what you consider to be common sense maybe nonsense to someone else. What is common sense today may be shown to be utterly worthless and stupid tomorrow. To me that is not a sound basis for my life.

The Bible - inerrant word of God?

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