PERFECT

by Derrick 37 Replies latest jw friends

LuckyLucy

I already am the perfect.. ME!! Thank you very much!!
Derrick

derrickb007 wrote:
My question to you is can YOU prove from the bible that all these things will exist that you just mentioned. The one scripture that you quoted has nothing to do with a paradise earth, or man's perfection. The apostle Paul said to be ready to stand and make a defence for what you believe. Time to stand and deliver. I look forward to hearing your defence.

Absolutely I stand in defense of what I believe. The proof is God's original plan for mankind as it is written in the first book of the Bible in Genesis in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). God intended for Adam and Eve to extend their lovely garden of Eden to cover the entire Earth which they were commanded to populate and "subdue." A careful read of the book of Genesis will show that God originally intended Adam and Eve to live forever on Earth. Their disobedience to God's command not to eat of the forbidden fruit caused them to lose perfection and reduced their lives to less than a millennium. The book of Genesis describes subsequent generations after Adam (but before the global flood) to live centuries less. Eventually, the lifespan of humans whittled away to under a century due to the corrupted human genetic pool. Although the book of Genesis chronicles the life of Adam at almost a millennium and subsequent lives over half that, eventually the lifespan of humanity reached a record low of less than 30 years during the Dark Ages during the past 2,000 years. Only technology has enhanced the life expectancy of humans but not appreciably increased our years. Few live to the age of 100+ and scientists have only identified the fact that aging is a genetic disease. They haven't cured it by any means.
The scripture I quoted had everything to do with the fact that God will far outstrip our severely limited expectation of what is in store for mankind in the future. Anyone who doubts this, simply has to reread the scripture in my post and consult any reputable Bible commentary on this scripture. I did not state it has anything to do with paradise on Earth. I emphasized that it points to a glorious future that we cannot possibly imagine, beyond our farthest expections, something wonderful.
Most of the responses in this thread, and quotes of imperfect human philosophers, illustrates exactly why we are unable to comprehend the infinite depths of what God has in store for us in the future! It's like people who were born in Jewish concentration camps. They never seen a garden or even so much as a flower. How can they possibly conceive living on an English estate with acres and acres of lovely gardens, sleep in a beautiful bed of the finest linens, eat of the finest foods, travel to exotic places and get the best education money can buy? If they had never even been exposed to fair tales, then to them this dream is incomprehensible. Yet, upon receiving this gift after their release from captivity of the concentration camps, the wonderment in their eyes at beholding these things would truly be an emotional tear-jerking experience for most people. This is the spirit in which the Apostle spoke.
Derrick
AGuest

Hi, dear Rick... it's me, again... and, as always, peace to you!
I know you most probably don't want to hear this (but then, I do not know your heart, do I?), but I am compelled by the spirit of my Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, which spirit is in me by means of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... to respond to something you said, if you will, again, be patient with and permit me. Thank you. You said:
Many reading this never knew the Bible offered such a wonderful future for you and those you love. Why not read your Bible if you never have? You will discover that death is only the beginning, and using an apropo metaphor, that when you emerge from your cocoon as a free and perfect "butterfly" you will fly away to great places.
Rick, dear one... please... PLEASE... know and understand... that the BIBLE... offers you NOTHING! The Bible can... and does... only TELL US... about... the One that offers such wonders! You have asked these kind folks here: "Why not read your Bible...?" Sigh! Dear, dear Rick, again, I ask YOU... were you not told... have YOU not read (in YOUR Bible)... and can YOU not HEAR... when my Lord says, even to YOU:
"You are searching the scriptures... because you think that by means of THEM... you will have everlasting life. And THESE (the "scriptures") are the VERY ones... that bear witness... ABOUT ME. And yet... YOU DO NOT WANT TO COME TO... ME... that YOU... may have LIFE.
You are saying here, my dear one, my brother, that by reading their Bible they will learn of these wonderful things that you speak of. And that is true. But I am compelled by the spirit of my Father to ask you: is simply learning of something the same as ACQUIRING it? Why not, then, lead them to the One of whom the Bible SPEAKS... the One who can GRANT such wonders... if only those who hear... WISH it? THIRST for it?
Your intentions are "good", dear one. Truly. My Lord knows this, and thus keeps sending me to askl you that if YOU are "thirsting"... why not come to HIM... and DRINK?! Is not the invitation for ALL who are thirsting? How, then, can you "feed" and grant water to anyone else... when you yourself have not yet eaten and drank? How can you feed them... when YOU are hungry? How can you offer them LIFE... when you yourself have not yet eaten from the TREE... of Life?
None of us can save another, dear Rick. Not one of us... can save even a brother. But we CAN... all of us... ANY of us... direct our brothers to the One who CAN save them. Yes? And he does not reside in a book, dear one. And the life he offers... the REAL life... life... everlasting... cannot be found in a book. A book, my brother, can only TELL us about the One who offers such.
I am grateful that your rose-colored glasses are shorn. I rejoice, too, that you have not left off your love for those of our brothers who are still enslaved by earthling man... misled by earthling man... but continue in your love and hope for them. For love... TRUE love... "never fails." However, can you truly direct them properly if you yourself do not know "where you are going away to?" My brother, there is NO other place. There is only another One. And his hand is extended, HIS "ark" [heart] stands open, and his invitation is issued still. And so, by the spirit of my Father, the Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name IS... JAH... of Armies... as such spirit has been granted me by that One, His Son, I say to YOU, still:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... free!"
John 6:48, 51, 53, 55, 56
If you, as you wish these folks here to do, are HEARING... then the Spirit and the Bride KEEP saying, "Come!" even to you.
Rick... KISS THE SON!
I am...
Your servant, as I am servant to all those of the Household of God, Israel, and those that go with them, as it has been granted me to thus slave for the Light and Life of God, by serving such household, HIS household, to time indefinite...
SJ
A Paduan

In my clear conscience I can say,
Keep your lush botanical paradise over at your place - I enjoy a desert.
And as for the scripture "what the heart of man hasn't thought of" - what you have described then is not "it" - but hogwash (understand what this means).
It actually is what you haven't conceived.
paduan
Derrick

A Paduan wrote:
Keep your lush botanical paradise over at your place - I enjoy a desert.

A desert is not lush and botanical? Have you seen the Arizona deserts in various parts of the state? The Grand Canyon?
What about Zion National Park in neighboring Utah within close proximity to the Grand Canyon?
A Paduan, the point of my metaphor was to convey the diversity of God. However, you raised an excellent point...
And as for the scripture "what the heart of man hasn't thought of" - what you have described then is not "it" - but hogwash (understand what this means).
Absolutely I understand what you mean and agree! However, in order to get even a "glimmer" of the things to come, we need some point of reference to tell others without faith of this wonderful hope.
It actually is what you haven't conceived.
Exactly! Something that will certainly make you think something along the lines of "wow, and I thought my concept of paradise was rich! No wonder the Apostle said I never could have conceived this. This is simply unbelievable... so beautiful... I had no idea... THANK YOU, JEHOVAH GOD!" The words of Jodie Foster in the movie "CONTACT" come to mind when she went for a ride in "The Machine" and was marvelling at a universe of beauty she never even conceived.
AGuest wrote: You are saying here, my dear one, my brother, that by reading their Bible they will learn of these wonderful things that you speak of. And that is true. But I am compelled by the spirit of my Father to ask you: is simply learning of something the same as ACQUIRING it? Why not, then, lead them to the One of whom the Bible SPEAKS... the One who can GRANT such wonders... if only those who hear... WISH it? THIRST for it?
The Bible is like a roadmap in a wilderness. Jesus Christ said that he is the "way" and that the "narrow" road to everlasting life would lead to a "gate" into God's kingdom. Most people are walking the wide and easy road to destruction, and fewer are on that narrow road that seems to run parallel but veers slowly away into the wilderness. Still fewer find that gate hidden away on that narrow path in the bushes! The Bible is like a literal geographic map that orients those seeking the absolute truth out there in the right direction so they will find the absolute truth. I encourage all not to wander around aimlessly looking for the truth because a map leading to it is right on your bookshelves. It reminds me how Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz finally discovered that the very shoes she wore would take her home, if she simply tapped her heels three times. The way home to God's kingdom has been on our bookshelves all along. Many simply need to dust it off, open it and read it. Like a road map, it will give us the directions to finding the truth.
You raise an important point there is a major difference between knowing the location of the narrow road to everlasting life, and actually walking on it as it veers farther and farther away from the wide road to destruction. The former is an academic exercise, the latter is accomplished by willpower that comes from faith. Through faith we "aquire" the truth. That faith leads us onto the narrow road, and directs us to the seemingly hidden gate. By following that road and passing through that gate we enter the kingdom of God under the auspices of his Son, Jesus Christ. From then on out, we will find the true meaning of life in a loving relationship with Christ, and these wonders shall never cease.
Derrick
Edited by - Derrick on 11 November 2002 22:50:53
PurpleV

By following that road and passing through that gate we enter the kingdom of God under the auspices of his Son, Jesus Christ. From then on out, we will find the true meaning of life in a loving relationship with Christ, and these wonders shall never cease.

Gee, that sounds nice. But, do I have to allow the Watchtower organization to insert itself into this lovely picture? Or can I have a great relationship with God and His Son by myself, just as the Bible promised?
AGuest

Hello, again, dear Rick... and again, peace to you!
May I ask your patient indulgence once again? Thank you! You said some things, dear one, that I would like to expound on just a bit more to you, if you will permit me:
The Bible is like a roadmap in a wilderness.
Before you convince yourself of that, may I direct you to Psalm 119:105, which says of JAH:
"Your word is a lamp to my foot and a light to my roadway."
Now, if you will, read this scripture in conjunction with John 1:1, 4, 5, 9, 14 and John 8:12... and tell me if you still think the Bible is the "roadmap". Does the Bible itself say that it is "like a roadmap"? Rather, is not my Lord himself recorded to have said:
"He... that follows ME... will by no means walk in darkness..."
If one follows him, what need does one have of a roadmap, dear Rick?
Jesus Christ said that he is the "way" and that the "narrow" road to everlasting life would lead to a "gate" into God's kingdom.
Rick, there is no narrow road. There is a CRAMPED road, dear one... and a narrow... GATE. And indeed, just as it is said that the very scriptures are about him, my Lord IS that cramped road... or "Way"... just as he is that narrow gate... or "Door". And few... are the ones "finding" HIM.
John 14:6; John 10:1, 7
He is the Way... as well as the Gate/Door. That is why he admonished... "Go IN... through the narrow gate..." For NO ONE "comes to the Father," except THROUGH... him. Anyone who tries to "climb up some other place," is a "thief... and a plunderer."
The Bible is like a literal geographic map that orients those seeking the absolute truth out there in the right direction so they will find the absolute truth.
The Bible, dear one, is merely an extension of the "pedagogue"... the law... which was a tutor... leading to Christ! Once the Christ arrived, however, the disciples were to no longer look to the Law, but look to the Son, yes? Why then send them BACK to looking at the Law? Will it not be as my Lord said:
"Looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the SENSE of it"?
Why did he say that? Because as Paul (?) related at 2 Corinthians 3:14-16 (and please pay very close attention, dear one): "For to this day there remains the SAME veil... UNLIFTED... at the reading of the OLD Covenant, because it is... DONE AWAY WITH... by means of CHRIST. In fact, DOWN TO THIS DAY... WHENEVER MOSES IS READ... a veil lies... UPON THEIR HEARTS. But... when there is a turning to THE LORD... the veil... IS TAKEN AWAY."
Because of that veil, the one that covered Moses face when he came down off Mt. Sinai, dear Rick, Israel could not gaze upon God's glory! And it is the same today! By trying to turn people's faces BACK to the "tutor"... rather than turn them to THE LORD... you place a VEIL over their HEARTS... so that God's glory... His SON... cannot "shine" through!
I encourage all not to wander around aimlessly looking for the truth because a map leading to it is right on your bookshelves.
Oh, honey! Why not skip the middleman? Why not lead them DIRECTLY to the Truth? Did he himself not say, "Come to ME... all you who are toiling and loaded down?" Did he not say, "If anyone is thirsting, let him come to ME... and drink?"
John 14:6
It reminds me how Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz finally discovered that the very shoes she wore would take her home, if she simply tapped her heels three times.
Yes! Something like that! Something like, "You don't NEED the Wizard, Dorothy!"
The way home to God's kingdom has been on our bookshelves all along.
Oh, Rick. You say all of this good stuff... and then you say this. The "Way", dear one, is NOT on your bookshelf... or mine... or anyone else's.
Many simply need to dust it off, open it and read it. Like a road map, it will give us the directions to finding the truth.
Sigh! Or... you can just simply go to the Truth. ("Come to ME... all you who are...")
You raise an important point there is a major difference between knowing the location of the narrow road to everlasting life, and actually walking on it as it veers farther and farther away from the wide road to destruction.
I don't think I raised that "point," Rick... at least, not in the way you say here.
The former is an academic exercise, the latter is accomplished by willpower that comes from faith.
The latter is accomplished simply by one hearing the invitation... and accepting, Rick. That's it; that's all.
Through faith we "aquire" the truth.
No, dear one... through faith... we are "aquired"... BY the Truth. ("You did not choose me; I... chose YOU.")
That faith leads us onto the narrow road, and directs us to the seemingly hidden gate.
Seemingly is right... for he is not hidden. Indeed, he is not far off from ANY of us. All WE need do... is grope.
By following that road and passing through that gate we enter the kingdom of God under the auspices of his Son, Jesus Christ.
Rick, honey, we do not enter "under the auspices" of the Son of God. We enter... THROUGH that one... literally. He IS the Way/Road... and he IS the gate/door.
From then on out, we will find the true meaning of life in a loving relationship with Christ, and these wonders shall never cease.
Actually, we can do that now, dear Rick. Because we can "enter" into that kingdom NOW... not with our flesh and bone... but with our spirit. True, we cannot yet RESIDE there... but that kingdom can now reside in US... by the dwelling of God and Christ in US... by means of holy spirit. We are the temple of God, the dwelling place for His spirit, through Christ... the "house" that He is "building" as a place to occupy BY spirit, through His Son. For it is just as He prophesied to David, that it would be the SON that would build His House.
May you hear... and get the sense of it.
Your servant and a slave of Christ, now a LIVING "stone" in the temple of God,
SJ
Farkel

Poor Rick has lot it. Again. Sigh.
But yet, he claims he taught me SO MUCH over the years!
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Farkel
Farkel

Aguest,
: May you hear... and get the sense of it.
: Your servant and a slave of Christ, now a LIVING "stone" in the temple of God,
Are the "stones" crying out now? Is this prophecy being unfolded? Are you starting a new religion called the "RockTower?"
Just curious.
Farkel
AGuest

Hey, there, Daddy-O... peace... and a great big grin back at 'cha!
Are the "stones" crying out? Well, last time I heard Mick Jagg... uh, oh... er... uh... OHHHHhhhh! I get it! "Stones!" As in "the stones would cry out"... yeah, yeah, I see...
Ha... ha... ha... ha... ha... (my joke was almost as bad as yours, wasn't it? Snicker, snicker )
Peace... and it's WAY past your bedtime, young man. Lights out!
Your friend,
SJ

PERFECT

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