Oh goody, I'm gonna be perfect and in a paradise! Yippee!! Do I have to Kiss Hank's Ass, though?
PERFECT
by Derrick 37 Replies latest jw friends
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Simon
All of the stuff sounds fantastic. but ...
While an everlasting, perfect life would be nice, it doesn't make it any more likely.
Imagine wasting the life you do have by striving after the impossible?
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Jesus Christ
This is a perfect example of your not understanding what I'm saying. If a person does not know that Christ exists or understand why Christ came to Earth and died, then how can they accept Christ?
Actually, even though I like to tell some of you that I died for you that's not really what happened. Dad got kind of drunk one night and knocked up Mary. Had the kid that was supposed to be born come into this world, well, let's just say if you think the Spice Girls were bad........ Long story short, I was sent down here to clean things up and help keep mom quiet about that one little night where dad decided to pay a visit.
In all honesty, this does answer one of those long thought of questions. "Could god create a condem that's so strong that it would even be able to survive his sperm?" The anser, of course would be a resounding "NO!!!!"
Also, my apologies to Santa Claus. In all honesty though, I never really said those words that are attributed to me in the bible and have no clue where they came from. Come on, the oldest writings that are supposed to be attributed to me weren't found until close to 100 years after I died. How accurate do you expect them to really be? Anyway, I'm hoping Santa gets me some really cool birthday gifts this year.
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SYN
Just ribbing ya, Derrick, I know what you meant! It does sound nice, doesn't it? That's exactly why it's such an effective cult hook!
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Dia
Ah, the deluded 'never wrong' mind at work.
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AGuest
You can be pretty "witty", yo'sef, Daddy-O (peace to you!)
Rick... Rick... Rick... Rick...
This is a perfect example of your not understanding what I'm saying. If a person does not know that Christ exists or understand why Christ came to Earth and died, then how can they accept Christ?
May I direct you to go back and read whether or not you were speaking to people who do "not know that Christ exists or understand why Christ came to Earth and died"? I mean, I thought you were addressing people who consider themselves... or at one time considered themselves... "christians". By that very reference, dear Rick... they know what you now wish to purport they don't. Stay on track, my brother. Please.
If God simply intended to miraculously interject the knowledge of Christ into humans so we each could accept Christ as our Savior without a holy book to guide them, then the Bible is no more relevant than any other "inspired" holy writings.
First, the "Bible" was not inspired; scripture was. But that's beyond the scope of this discussion. Later, then. Now, the first part of what you said, about the knowledge of Christ being "interjected," can be "found true"... as prophesied at Jeremiah 31:31-34. Notice that this is with regard to the NEW Covenant? The Bible, again, Rick, is a extension of the Law... that was a "tutor"... LEADING TO CHRIST. And which was "done away with." Thus, the Bible itself tells you to cut out the "middleman" and go directly to Christ!
Obviously, people don't suddenly "know" about Christ. They learn about him from the Bible. Or someone such as a missionary reads the Bible, becomes a man/woman of God, and takes the message of hope to them.
Listen to what you yourself are saying here: they LEARN about him from the Bible. And thus, almost everyone here has LEARNED about him. And yet... they don't KNOW him. Why? Read John 5:39, 40, Rick, please. Just read it... and ask for holy spirit so that you can get the SENSE of it. You are sending them to a "medium", dear one. Why not send them to the SOURCE himself?
If you already know the truth or have accepted Christ,
Christ... IS the Truth, Rick. That is why he is recorded at John 8:32, 36 to have said:
"You will know the Truth... and the Truth... will set you free. Therefore, if the SON (the TRUTH) sets you free, you will actually BE free."
Yet, you keep telling these folks that the Bible is/contains/has the "truth" that will set them free. It is you, then, that can't/won't hear... and get the SENSE of it. It is YOU that "keeps searching the scriptures... because you think that by means of THEM... you will have everlasting life." It is you, who fail to hear my Lord when says, "And these are the very ones that bear witness... about ME (him)... and yet... YOU (Rick)... do not want to come... to me (him)". No, you'd rather "keep searching the scriptures,"... and misleading others to do so, too! Why?!
the Bible has already at some point guided you to God by simply showing you there is a God
I am sorry, but you are wrong. True, the Bible told me of God. Yet, it was my Lord who guided me TO God. It was HE who took me into the Most Holy, before the throne of God... "in spirit"... to that place where we can ALL now "enter"... but only THROUGH HIM, the CURTAIN. He took me before the person of my Father, the Holy One of Israel... and showed Him to me... as well as me to Him. You, though, keep leading these people to a book... which cannot get them entry/access to anywhere... rather than leading them to the One THROUGH whom we all must go... to enter and "see" God. To know God... and become known BY God.
he loves you, and he sent his Son to Earth to save you from sin and death.
Indeed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you are consistently reading my words in a deragatory manner.
If it seems such, then I apologize, for it is not my intention. Do not hurry yourself to be offended, Rick, but simply remember the man, Apollo, who, although possessing holy spirit, needed to have the Way "expounded more accurately to him" by Prisca and Aquilla.
Let me ask you this: how do you think the GB would feel if one day they woke up and realized just how many good people they misled, THINKING they were doing the "right" thing? They can't see it now, Rick, because they are "blind".
Revelation 3:17
Now, I can let you continue on your course, and in truth, the person that I am would be most happy to do so. But my Lord keeps directing me to at least TRY to get you to hear. He has for quite some time now, yes? And I hear... and obey. For your life... as well as mine. I am, after all a servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, as well as my brothers' "keeper". Therefore, if the Master of that Household sends me, his slave, to admonish one of his House, to keep that one from committing an injustice, who am I to "beg off"? Forget the MESSENGER, Rick. Rather, hear... THE MESSAGE. For I am nothing more than a good-for-nothing-slave, doing what I "ought" to do, which is obey the Master... and serve his Household.
Ezekiel 3:20, 21
Almost reminds me of a lawyer who wants to dig up something on someone, so they get hold of a personal letter you wrote someone and find some sentence that could be construed or misinterpreted in the worst possible way. Then they cite this sentence in their legal brief and you exclaim they have totally misinterpreted your words.
I understand what you are saying, but truly, that is not the case here. Truly.
To the average reader that's quite obvious, but if you're trying to spin a persons words then you will ALWAYS find good "sound bites" that change the spirit of what they were trying to convey.
Actually, it's that "spirit", the spirit behind what you are trying to convey... your sincerity... that keeps my Lord sending me back. He knows your heart... and your intention. You want to be heard. Are you, though, willing to LISTEN... to the One who speaks to YOU? Or are you satisfied with speaking, regardless of whether what you are saying is accurate... or even true?
Perhaps you didn't mean to do this, or you didn't do this, but to me, that is how it looks. The above quote with your reply is illustrative of this.
Again, I apologize. And I also implore you: go back and reread what I have be permitted to post to you. Take me... and you... out of it. Read what you posted... and read what I was directed to post to you in response. Forget me and forget you, but simply read. As if it were two completely unrelated people posting. Look up whatever was cited from the "source" YOU put your faith in, the Bible. Then hear... and listen. And THEN tell me if you still think my intention was malicious or insincere.
What have you go to lose... other than your current inaccurate understanding? But that won't be the first time that's happened, will it?
Again, I bid you peace.
YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those that go with them,
SJ
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Derrick
AGuest,
I appreciate your commentary. I think we're on the same track but in different locomotives. I cannot disagree with anything you said. However, in your humility you refer to yourself as a good for nothing servant of Christ. Surely you ALSO so you consider yourself Christ's daughter or his sister? I consider myself a brother of Christ for I'm part of the human family that was one of his creations on Jehovah's behalf. I consider myself a son of Jehovah God, not His grandson. (For those of you who think this is not a JW teaching, you're partially right. See the Watchtower Society's book "Prince of Peace" where Jesus Christ is referred to as our Father and Jehovah God is both our Grandfather and Father, and the elders are to become "Princes" over Earth immediately after Armageddon.) Incidentally, I pray to my Father (not Grandfather) in the Heavens as do many other JWs. According to this book, Christ is our Father even though we are supposed to pray to God as our Father through Christ. Not confused enough? Then read this book. It will give you a whole new respect for the elders, because according to this book they will enforce the law under the direction of Headquarters after worldwide governments are destroyed.
Derrick
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AGuest
Good day, Rick... and much peace to you. I hope you won't mind, but in responding to you here, I have no choice but to be brutally honest, if you will permit me. Again, however, I ask that you take me and you out of this... and simply hear. Now, then:
I appreciate your commentary.
In the sense that the word appreciate means "gratitude", I thank you. In the sense that it means "comprehend," I have to say that your further comments lead me to have to disagree with you. I am sorry. But if you keep reading, you will see why.
I think we're on the same track but in different locomotives.
That can only be "good" if we are traveling in the same direction, yes? And I don't think we are. Keep reading, please.
I cannot disagree with anything you said.
But aren't you, though, by continuing to send people in a direction I have tried to admonish that you shouldn't, as I've been permitted to share with you by means of my Lord?
However, in your humility you refer to yourself as a good for nothing servant of Christ.
Which is the truth. I did not HAVE to be; I have become so willingly. He has done so much for me that I would do whatever I could to repay him. But what do I have that he can benefit from? Nothing... other than my loyalty... and willingness to serve him and his household.
Surely you ALSO so you consider yourself Christ's daughter or his sister?
No, I am his "brother", by means of (1) direct descendency from our forefather, Jacob/Israel, through the tribe of Ben-Jah-Min, and (2) by means of an adoption with holy spirit, so that we have the same Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. Since in the spirit realm there is no gender issue, "brother" is an absolutely appropriate word.
I consider myself a brother of Christ for I'm part of the human family that was one of his creations on Jehovah's behalf.
Simply being a part of the human family does not make you Christ's brother, Rick. To be his brother, you would have to have the same Father. Thus, Cain, a "child of the Devil" was/is not his brother. Nor are any who are deemed to be "children of the Devil," as evidenced by their hatred for their brother(s).
I consider myself a son of Jehovah God, not His grandson.
Which you would be, by reason of ans anointing with holy spirit, which results in an "adoption" as a son of God. I am not so sure that you have yet received this, yet, because I certainly know that due to your faith you are vehemently being "invited". That's why I keep being sent back to you, so that like Saul of Tarsus and the disciple Apollo, you can have the Way "expounded more accurately" to YOU, in order to accept such invitation and receive such adoption. Remember, however, many are invited; few... are chosen.
(For those of you who think this is not a JW teaching, you're partially right. See the Watchtower Society's book "Prince of Peace" where Jesus Christ is referred to as our Father and Jehovah God is both our Grandfather and Father, and the elders are to become "Princes" over Earth immediately after Armageddon.)
And now, see, here is where I am sure that you do not comprehend/appreciate what I have been permitted to say to you. You again are misleading these people... sending them to a book published by earthling man... in whom you were told NOT to put your trust... to explain what is written in ANOTHER book. Why? Why not just send them directly to the SOURCE? Why have them drink "polluted" water... when they are being invited to drink the REAL thing... LIVING water... directly from the SOURCE ("Come to ME... and drink!")?
Rick, my Lord, the Son of God, is not our Father. It is the Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who is Father over all those whom the Christ leads to Him. My Lord is called "Eternal Father," due to the fact that by means of HIM... we are "begat" by God's holy spirit. Anyone who is "begat" by another, is a "son" of that one. However, the holy spirit that "conceives" us is not my Lord's, but my Father's, which spirit has been GIVEN my Lord... to give to us. He, though, rather than BE our "father"... has lovingly "raised us up"... so that at some point and for a bit of time (1,000), we will be to some degree equal with him... BROTHERS... as opposed to sons... and thus, rule WITH him. For 1,000 years. His rulership, however, started long before our does... and will continue indefinitely; ours... will come to an end after such 1,000-year period. Says so, right in the Bible.
Incidentally, I pray to my Father (not Grandfather) in the Heavens as do many other JWs.
Yes, they do. And quite inaccurately, too, for they pray to God "in the name of"... Jesus (and that name is another matter entirely, to be discussed in a different thread, perhaps). But that is not praying to God, Rick. True, one can ASK anything they wish "in the name of" the Son... but in order to have one's prayers heard by God, one must enter in BEFORE God. Or one must take their prayers to the one who CAN enter in. Either way, one must go THROUGH another... to approach and be heard by God. One must go THROUGH... the Son. Jehovah's Witnesses, however, have made and continue to make the grave error of trying to go directly to God... "in Jesus' name". Doesn't work that way, Rick, truly. And a consideration of the earthly temple arrangement should show you that:
Initially, the people could not go before God; only the high priest could. The people took their prayers to the priests, who "offered up sacrifices" and "burned incense" on their behalf. Once a year, the high priest went into the Most Holy and offered up, first, atonement for himself, then atonement on behalf of the people. That has changed: now, by means of my Lord, ANY can enter... but they must go through the CURTAIN that separates us from the Most Holy... and that CURTAIN is... first... OUR flesh... transcending which we can enter into the Holy... and second, MY LORD... through whom we can enter into the Most Holy. However, just invoking the words "in Jesus' name"... doesn't get you "in", dear one. YOU... are still here, as is your spirit. You've not "entered".
According to this book, Christ is our Father even though we are supposed to pray to God as our Father through Christ.
Well, okay... that is true enough. However, their explanation falls quite short of why this is. I have been permitted to explain it to you, though, above.
Not confused enough? Then read this book.
Ahhh, Rick. Honey, I did the JW-thang. For over 15 years. And I had a library much more comprehensive than most kingdom halls. My WT publications went all the way back to the 1800's. And at some time or another, I attempted to read every one of their books... MUCH devotion to it... to the weariness of my flesh. Ecc. 12:12 That was, in fact, one of the ways I began to see that they are not who they purport to be. My Lord helped me see it entirely.
It will give you a whole new respect for the elders,
The ONLY thing that could give me a whole new "respect" for the elders were if they were to leave off their cowardly ways of following a "golden calf" (something they can SEE so as to worship God), leave off burdening and binding God's sheep, exercise TRUE love (which means loving even their enemies, like the Samaritan man)... versus having a FORM of godly devotion, but proving false to its power... and OPEN the way into the kingdom of God, by directing all to Christ, THE WAY... versus "shutting up the kingdom of God before men," for as it is written they do this because they themselves will not enter in, neither will they permit those on their way in to enter.
They do this latter, Rick, by convincing people NOT to eat the flesh and drink the blood of my Lord... in DIRECT OPPOSITION to what my Lord himself said at John 6:48, 51, 53, 55, 56. As my Lord is recorded to have said, "UNLESS you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man... you have NO LIFE... in yourselves." Yet, your "elders" teach, by means of the false teaching handed to THEM... that everyone besides the "little flock"... do have life "in themselves." How can that be, Rick, when my Lord said that UNLESS you do, you have NO life in yourselves? Are not these shutting up the very WAY of Life by NOT letting folks do what Christ himself COMMANDED them to in order to HAVE life... in themselves?
And what is their reaction when folks FOLLOW that command? Do they rejoice? Or do they weep and gnash their teeth, speak ill of such ones in their hearts and under their breath... and look for ways to "expel" such ones from their "synagogues" (public meeting places)?
You've taken off the rosy colored glasses, Rick, true. But good does it do if you've closed your eyes upon doing so? OPEN YOUR EYES and SEE... what is TRUE!
because according to this book they will enforce the law under the direction of Headquarters after worldwide governments are destroyed.
According to that book, perhaps. According to the Bible, however, these are "illegimate sons." They themselves say that they are the "sheiks of Ashdod." I implore you, look it up. Then, look up "headquarters" of ANY kind in your Bible. Rick, dear one... you are still being misled. Here, though, is the truth:
When my Lord returns for those who belong to him (for he went away to prepare a place, and will return to take those home with him), those who died in union with him will rise, and at the same time those who did not die, will be changed. TOGETHER... such ones will meet my Lord "in the air"... which means they will all be spirits. As spirit beings, they will be taken to the House of God, which is on the TRUE Mt. Zion, not the earthly one, but the heavenly one for which the earthly was copied and named... where a "marriage" will take place.
The marriage consists of Christ and those who belong to him become ONE "spirit" (like a man and woman become one flesh, and which can also be "loosed" - think King Saul for spirit and David/Michal for flesh). It is at that time that the spirit of God, which 'fragmented' at Pentecost - as evidenced by the flames over the heads of those there - will once again be WHOLE... because all of these will be UNITED, thus reuniting that spirit.
After the marriage... which is in the FATHER'S house... rulership is conferred upon those who have now been joined to Christ (the Christ himself has already received HIS rulership... for he has begun ruling "in the midst of his enemies"... "subduing (bringing into submission)" us). Once they have received this TEMPORARY rulership, then ALL of them sit down with Christ... on thrones... and ALL of the nations are gathered before them... and separated... sheep from goats... based on how they treated these. This takes place during the entire 1,000-year rulership... which is BEFORE the War of the Great Day of God Almighty, at the place that is called Har-Maggedon. (Rev. 12:7-10)
The sheep are granted entry into NEW Jerusalem, which once the separating has been completed "comes down out of heaven" and exists UPON the earth. And WITHIN her... that City... there is NO sickness, mourning, outcry, pain. All of that still exists OUTSIDE... where the goats, who received "everlasting CUTTING OFF (notice, it did not say "destruction")" are. However, there is LIFE inside that City, the TREE OF LIFE... from which any who eat may live forever. Thus, those INSIDE the city, eat... and are "cured"... so that they can live forever. Those OUTSIDE, however... in order to live forever, must get INSIDE.
And so it is that when Satan is loosed (at the END of the 1,000 years)... he goes to mislead those OUTSIDE the City... Gog... the goats... and Magog... the spirits that sinned... to go against that City, in order to conquer it and get to that TREE. Unlike with Adam, however, who was simply barred from reentry, THIS time these are GATHERED... at the place called in Har-Mageddon... or "the plain of Meggido" which is directly OUTSIDE the City... they are gathered to the War of the Great Day of JAH... and "fire comes down out of Heaven"... FROM JAH... and destroys these. Why? Because if they gain entry... they could and would eat... and live... in their wickedness... to the detriment of the righteous... forever. God cannot and will not let that happen. He will instead "cleanse the heavens AND the earth", by removing both wicked flesh AND wicked spirits. Thus, the heavens (spirit realm) and earth (fleshly realm) that are NOW... are "stored up for fire."
After THAT... my Lord turns EVERYTHING over to my Father... for the Judgment. My Father, then, sits down on HIS throne (because all things have been handed back over to him by the Son)... and is given books/scrolls. Both Daniel and John saw this event. It is at THAT time that the "second" resurrection takes place... of the righteous (those who belonged to Christ, but not "during his presence")... and the unrighteous (including Adam, Eve, Judas...). And these are to be "judged" from their deeds, as written in such books/scrolls.
Some of the these, however, will have their names written in another scroll, the Lamb's Book, the Book of Life. IF their names are written there, then their "sins" are blotted out from the scroll containing their deeds. In this event, their sins are "covered"... thus they HAVE NO SIN... and are worthy of receiving a "white robe"... or SPIRIT BODY... and given life ("Come, inherit the kingdom..."), like the sheep who were given entry 1,000 years earlier. With spirit bodies, they can "enter"... and reside in New Jerusalem... forever.
Those who names are NOT found written in the Lamb's Book, will have no COVERING for their sins, and thus, they will be JUDGED... based on such sins. And since the "wages of sin is death," and they have no covering FOR such sins... they will receive death... of the body AND the spirit... by means of everlasting destruction... in the Lake of Fire, which fire is the ONLY thing that can kill the body... AND the spirit.
And once this is accomplished... all things are turned back over to the Son... who rules... forever and ever. Daniel Chapter 7 delineates this.
What I have shared with you here, dear Rick, is the truth. It is not contrived... nor it is false. The Bible supports it entirely, including the sequence of events. If, then, the Bible is as important as you believe it to be, why do YOU not trust what it tells YOU? I implore you, then, go back and read it yourself and see if these things are not true. And if you find that they are, why not then listen to the REST of what the Bible tells you... which is to stop turning to IT... and return to the One who "bought" you... to the "rock" from which YOU were hewn?
Again, may you hear... and get the sense of it.
Your servant, and a slave of Christ,
SJ
Edited by - AGuest on 15 November 2002 11:54:44
Edited by - AGuest on 15 November 2002 11:57:58