by Robdar 39 Replies latest jw friends
I take in then Czar that you weren't as subdued as the others by the opener.
"O faithless and twisted generation, how long must I continue with you and put up with you?"
I wonder who thought of using that line to introduce the "new lightes".
paduan
I had been wondering about the new definition of Generation. If that article was the definition, then I didn't see it. That article takes the long way of saying that we can't tell the time of the Great Tribulation. Then it concludes in a section that identifies the generation of the first century as the blind masses. That section also left-handedly advises against calculating the length of a generation. But it makes no reference to what a generation in this greater fulfillment might be.
The most I could get out of it was that this foretold generation should be accepted as a state of blindness, not some elapsed time. It feels to me that they are saying that the wicked people will be here as long as there are wicked people, the end will come when the end comes.
That is one cowardly way of backing away from the 'God showed us how to calculate this' mode for the entire century prior.
Shera,
Thank you for posting the article. I appreciate your efforts.
It felt odd to me to wade through more WT gobbleligook after all these years. This is a quote from the above article:
Later in 31 C.E., as Jesus and his disciples set out on their second preaching tour of Galilee, some of the scribes and Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign. He told them and the crowds who were present: A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking for a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. . . . That is how it will be also with this wicked generation. (Matthew 12:38-46) Obviously, this wicked generation included both the religious leaders and the crowds who never came to appreciate the sign that was fulfilled in Jesus death and resurrection.
By their own words they condemn themselves.
Robyn
And even after all that, they still can't get how "generation" is used - a s in "born of the Spirit" and "born of the flesh".
blimey
paduan
Edited by - a paduan on 14 November 2002 19:52:18
Robdar,your welcome.
ok i read the article-but i fail to find where they say that the brothes all previously misundrstood the generation thing. aCtualy, i readthe whole thing and they do not even address the previous idea of a generation being 70-80-years. If they do say this in the publications pls someone pint it out for me so i cna show my husband who does not believe any of this.
I recieved this from another x-JW from www.beliefnet.com ..sorry if it doesn't have all the info you need.
Here is the follow-up Questions From Readers:
*** w95 11/1 30-1 Questions From Readers *** Questions From Readers
At 1 Peter 2:9, the King James Version calls anointed Christians a chosen generation. Should this affect our view of Jesus use of generation recorded at Matthew 24:34?
The word generation does appear in the rendering of both passages in certain translations. According to the King James Version, the apostle Peter wrote: But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. And Jesus foretold: Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.1 Peter 2:9; Matthew 24:34.
In the former passage, the apostle Peter used the Greek word ge'nos, whereas in the text of Jesus statement, we find genea'. These two Greek words may appear to be similar, and they are linked to a common root; yet, they are different words, and they have different meanings. The New World Translation of the Holy ScripturesWith References says in a footnote to 1 Peter 2:9: Race. Gr., ge'nos; different from genea', generation, as in Mt 24:34. A corresponding footnote is found to Matthew 24:34.
As those footnotes indicate, ge'nos is appropriately translated by the English word race, as commonly found in English versions. At 1 Peter 2:9, Peter applied the prophecy found at Isaiah 61:6 to anointed Christians with the heavenly hope. These are drawn from many nations and tribes, but natural backgrounds are put behind them as they become part of the nation of spiritual . (Romans 10:12; Galatians , 29; ; Revelation 5:9, 10) Peter identified them as becoming, in a spiritual sense, a distinct groupa chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession.
But in the Greek text of Jesus words found at Matthew 24:34, we find the word genea'. It is widely recognized that Jesus was referring, not to any race of people, but to the people living at a certain period of time.
Almost a hundred years ago, Charles T. Russell, first president of the Watch Tower Society, made this clear, writing: Although the words generation and race may be said to come from a common root or starting point, yet they are not the same; and in Scriptural usage the two words are quite distinct. . . . In the three different records of this prophecy our Lord is credited with using a wholly different Greek word (genea) which does not mean race, but has the same significance as our English word generation. Other uses of this Greek word (genea) prove that it is not used with the significance of race, but in reference to people living contemporaneously.The Day of Vengeance, pages 602-3.
More recently, A Handbook on the Gospel of Matthew (1988), designed for Bible translators, said: [The New International Version] translates this generation literally but follows with a footnote, Or race. And one New Testament scholar believes that Matthew means not just the first generation after Jesus but all the generations of Judaism that reject him. However, there is no linguistic evidence to substantiate either of these conclusions, and they must be brushed aside as attempts to avoid the obvious meaning. In its original setting the reference was solely to Jesus own contemporaries.
As discussed on pages 10 to 15, Jesus condemned the generation of Jews of his time, his contemporaries who rejected him. (Luke 9:41; ; ) He often used qualifiers such as wicked and adulterous, faithless and twisted, and adulterous and sinful in describing that generation. (Matthew ; ; Mark 8:38) When Jesus used generation for the last time, he was on the with four apostles. (Mark 13:3) Those men, who were not yet anointed with spirit nor part of a Christian congregation, certainly did not constitute either a generation or a race of people. They were, though, very familiar with Jesus use of the term generation in referring to his contemporaries. So they logically would understand what he had in mind when he mentioned this generation for the last time. The apostle Peter, who was present, thereafter urged Jews: Get saved from this crooked generation.Acts .
We have often published evidence that many things Jesus foretold in this same discourse (such as wars, earthquakes, and famines) were fulfilled between his uttering the prophecy and the destruction of in 70 C.E. Many, but not all. There is no evidence, for example, that after the Romans attacked (66-70 C.E.) the sign of the Son of man appeared, causing all the tribes of the earth to beat themselves. (Matthew 24:30) Hence, that fulfillment between 33 C.E. and 70 C.E. must have been merely an initial one, not the full or large-scale fulfillment to which Jesus was also pointing.
In the introduction to his translation of Josephus work The Jewish War, G. A. Williamson writes: The disciples, Matthew tells us, had asked [Jesus] a double questionabout the destruction of the Temple and about His own final comingand He gave them a double answer, the first part of which most vividly foretold the occurrences destined to be so fully described by Josephus.
Yes, in the initial fulfillment, this generation evidently meant the same as it did at other timesthe contemporaneous generation of unbelieving Jews. That generation would not pass away without experiencing what Jesus foretold. As Williamson commented, this proved true in the decades leading up to s destruction, as an eyewitness historian, Josephus, described.
In the second or larger fulfillment, this generation would logically also be the contemporaneous people. As the article beginning on page 16 establishes, we need not conclude that Jesus was referring to a set number of years making up a generation.
On the contrary, two key things can be said about any time implied by generation. (1) A generation of people cannot be viewed as a period having a fixed number of years, as is the case with time designations meaning a set number of years (decade or century). (2) The people of a generation live for a relatively brief period, not one of great length.
Consequently, when the apostles heard Jesus refer to this generation, what would they think? While we, with the benefit of hindsight, know that s destruction in the great tribulation came 37 years later, the apostles hearing Jesus could not know that. Rather, his mention of generation would have conveyed to them, not the idea of a period of great length, but the people living over a relatively limited period of time. The same is true in our case. How fitting, then, are Jesus follow-up words: Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. . . . On this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.Matthew 24:36, 44.
[Footnotes]
In the expression this generation, a form of the demonstrative pronoun hou'tos well corresponds to the English word this. It can refer to something present or before the speaker. But it can also have other meanings. The Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (1991) notes: The word [hou'tos] designates an immediate fact. Thus the [aion hou'tos] is the presently existing world . . . and the [genea' haute] is the generation now living (e.g., Matt 12:41f., 45; 24:34). Dr. George B. Winer writes: The pronoun [hou'tos] sometimes refers, not to the noun locally nearest, but to one more remote, which, as the principal subject, was mentally the nearest, the most present to the writers thoughts.A Grammar of the Idiom of the New Testament, 7th edition, 1897.
Then, a follow-up to the follow-up:
*** w97 6/1 28 Questions From Readers *** Questions From Readers
The Watchtower of , focused on what Jesus said about this generation, as we read at Matthew 24:34. Does this mean that there is some question about whether Gods Kingdom was set up in heaven in 1914?
That discussion in The Watchtower offered no change at all in our fundamental teaching about 1914. Jesus set out the sign to mark his presence in Kingdom power. We have ample evidence that this sign has been in course of fulfillment since 1914. The facts about wars, famines, plagues, earthquakes, and other evidences bear out that since 1914, Jesus has been active as King of Gods Kingdom. This indicates that since then we have been in the conclusion of the system of things.
What, then, was The Watchtower clarifying? Well, the key was the sense in which Jesus used the word generation at Matthew 24:34. That passage reads: Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. What did Jesus mean by generation, both in his day and in ours?
Many scriptures confirm that Jesus did not use generation with regard to some small or distinct group, meaning only the Jewish leaders or only his loyal disciples. Rather, he used generation in condemning the masses of Jews who rejected him. Happily, though, individuals could do what the apostle Peter urged on the day of Pentecost, repent and get saved from this crooked generation.Acts .
In that statement, Peter was clearly not being precise as to any fixed age or length of time, nor was he tying the generation to any certain date. He did not say that people should get saved from the generation that was born in the same year Jesus was or the generation that was born in 29 C.E. Peter was speaking about the unbelieving Jews of that periodsome perhaps being rather young, others being olderwho had been exposed to Jesus teaching, had seen or heard of his miracles, and had not accepted him as Messiah.
That evidently is how Peter understood Jesus use of generation when he and three other apostles were with Jesus on the . According to Jesus prophetic statement, Jews of that periodbasically, Jesus contemporarieswere going to experience or hear of wars, earthquakes, famines, and other evidences that the end of the Jewish system was near. In fact, that generation did not pass before the end came in 70 C.E.Matthew 24:3-14, 34.
It must be acknowledged that we have not always taken Jesus words in that sense. There is a tendency for imperfect humans to want to be specific about the date when the end will come. Recall that even the apostles sought more specifics, asking: Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to at this time?Acts 1:6.
With similar sincere intentions, Gods servants in modern times have tried to derive from what Jesus said about generation some clear time element calculated from 1914. For instance, one line of reasoning has been that a generation can be 70 or 80 years, made up of people old enough to grasp the significance of the first world war and other developments; thus we can calculate more or less how near the end is.
However well-meaning such thinking was, did it comply with the advice Jesus went on to give? Jesus said: Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. . . . Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.Matthew 24:36-42.
So the recent information in The Watchtower about this generation did not change our understanding of what occurred in 1914. But it did give us a clearer grasp of Jesus use of the term generation, helping us to see that his usage was no basis for calculatingcounting from 1914how close to the end we are.
Surreptitious,
Thank you for posting the articles.
Welcome to the board. I hope you enjoy your time here.
Robyn
