by bjc2read 15 Replies latest watchtower bible
IW,
If the 'ark of the covenant' represents Jehovah's presence, then would there be any reason for a heavenly temple to need this symbol considering that Jehovah is present in person there? That is the reason that I believe that Revelation 11:19 is describing, not a literal heavenly temple, but an earthly one.
Your thoughts?
bjc
bjc,
I believe the Ark represents God's Presence on the earth. The fact that it is pictured as being in heaven is because God's Presence will at that time no longer be on the earth. In other words God will have removed himself from the earth for a time. Thus the Ark is pictured in heaven rather than on earth symbolizing the removal of God's Presence from the earth by the taking of the symbolic Ark home to himself.
IW
Hi IW:
Your questions above are deep and deserve serious consideration and thought. Since we've talked, I've been doing some bible research on our indepth conversation on the "Ark of the Covenant", and why it is not shown to be in the future temple of Ezekiel, as discussed above. I'd like to share some of those points with you on what I've found which I think are most interesting. Of course, these are things the WTS did not teach us correctly about, so the ideas are new so far as JWs are concerned.
Would that be okay with you?
In fact if you like, we could even communicate and cover these particular points of interest, by way of Instant Messaging on Yahoo, a direct on-on-one conversation, if you would like. I've done that before and I found that this works well for a two-way conversation on new ideas being exchanged. Would that be something you might be interested in doing?
Also my e-mail address is shown above. So, if you wish to communicate by e-mail that would be good for me too.
Or, we could continue our conversation right here, on the open forum via this thread. Your choice.
Any thoughts?
bjc
Hi bjc,
Or, we could continue our conversation right here, on the open forum via this thread.
Yes, I would prefer to continue our conversation here since it is here where it originated.
I look forward to your thoughts on the subject.
IW
IW,
Here is what my research revealed in reference to the ark of the covenant and Ezekiels temple.
If we consider what is written at Exodus 25: 22, we will see something very interesting. Here Jehovah says that he would speak to Moses from "ABOVE the cover", or above the "mercy seat", from between the two cherubim which are upon the ark of the testimony or "ark of the covenant". Please note, Jehovah would communicate with Moses from above the "mercy seat" (or "ark of the covenant") specifically between the two cherubim, these cherubim being above the mercy seat, not from the mercy seat itself. Other biblical references show Jehovah to be positioned or seated above the cover or mercy seat, actually "SITTING UPON the two cherubim". (1 Sam. 4:4; 2 Sam. 6:2) This of course then, raises an interesting question, namely: If we say Jehovah God Presence is represented by the "Ark of the Covenant" itself, then that would mean Jehovah would be positioned as being below the cherubim or underneath the cherubim, where the ark of the covenant itself is positioned in the Most Holy? And s uch would not be an accurate analogy from my perspective. The Bible shows Jehovah is actually positioned ABOVE the cover, sitting upon the Cherubim.
To further that thought, for example let's consider this point: if the mercy seat or "ark of the covenant" represented Jehovahs presence, then why would the High Priest sprinkle blood upon it to atone for it, as in the "Day of Atonement" ceremony? How can one atone for Jehovahs presence? This would not make good sense.
Most keen Bible students I think, would agree Jehovahs presence was represented by the miraculous Shekinah light which hovered ABOVE the "mercy seat" between the two cherubim, above the "ark of the covenant" in the Most Holy. Actually, the WTS teaches this too. In fact, t he WT 10/1/72, page 585 says: Well, there in the temples innermost compartment, the Most Holy, was the sacred Ark of the covenant. Above it was the miraculous Shekinah light that symbolized the presence of Jehovah. Also the WT 12/1/71, page 712, paragraph 8 supports this statement. It reads: In ancient Jerusalem before its destruction by the Babylonians the Jewish high priest presented the blood of the Atonement Day sacrifices every year on Tishri 10, sprinkling the blood before the golden mercy seat upon which were carved two golden cherubs, above whom the Shekinah light appeared, to represent the invisible presence of Jehovah there. (Ex. 25:17-22; Lev. 16:11-17; Num. 7:8, 9; 1 Sam. 4:4; 2 Sam. 6:2)
The ark of the covenant therefore must represent something different from Jehovah's Presence itself, as the "Shekinah" Light apparently does that. It seems reasonable to conclude the "ark of the covenant" then must represent "covenant relationship", or the messiah/covenant/mediator that stood between Israel and Jehovah, making it possible for the nation to have a relationship with Jehovah. A sacred relationship and agreement between God and the nation of Israel. Thus, t he ark of the covenant with its mercy seat was, therefore, a sacred arrangement of Jehovah and was to be considered as such by the nation of Israel. The disappearance of this ark would indicate that the nation would now be without a means of approach to Jehovah, that they were no longer in a covenant relationship with their God. History concludes that this ark disappeared before Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and its temple. The account of its disappearance can be ascertained by a close comparison of Ezekiel 10:4 and 11:23, I believe.
When Jehovah sent the nation of Israel into Babylon, He had already made the decision that the Law Covenant would have to be replaced. A question raised by Jeremiah reveals this at Jeremiah 14:21 and God's reply or answer to that question, as revealed in Jeremiah 31:31, 32 would it seem indicate this. So, when they returned from captivity in Babylon, they need not expect to have an ark of the covenant in the rebuilt temple. God's mind was already made up. Israel was to have a "NEW COVENANT" arrangement before God, and nothing could change that fact in God's mind. Therefore, logically we would expect no instruction to be given to construct an ark of the covenant in the rebuilt temple which means of course, there was no Shekinah light there either.
Therefore, when Jesus came and fulfilled the Law Covenant he became to God Almighty then, the new "ark of the covenant", more specifically the new "Mercy Seat" from God's perspective, for the nation of Israel. After Jesus' death, Israel could now obtain Godly Mercy by means and through Gods Chief Agent of Life, Jesus Christ. In this sense, Jesus becomes the messiah/covenant/mediator, the new "ark of the covenant" for the nation of spiritual Israel bringing a completely new Covenant arrangement into being. (Isaiah 42:6)
The prophetic book of Ezekiel shows us a defiled temple that brings great reproach on Gods Holy Name. (Ezekiel 43:7-9) This is a future temple, from Ezekiel's perspective. In this particular temple, Jesus Christ is the mediator. And yet we see in later chapters of Ezekiel, Jehovah taking steps to purify this temple and to make it his permanent residence. (Ezekiel 43:20-22; 48:35) Before this can occur, something more will be needed.
Your original comment and astute observation was that the ark of the covenant was not present in Ezekiel's temple. This is true. I believe the reason for this is the wanton practice of spiritual fornication on Israel's "kings" part caused Jehovah to remove the "covenant" of Jesus from this temple and nation. Therefore, to get back into Gods favor, Israel would need another messiah/covenant/mediator before God could make this temple His permanent residence as indicated at Ezekiel 48:35.
bjc
Edited by - bjc2read on 26 December 2002 0:22:13
Edited by - bjc2read on 26 December 2002 0:31:2
Edited by - bjc2read on 26 December 2002 7:58:12
Edited by - bjc2read on 26 December 2002 11:25:49
Edited by - bjc2read on 26 December 2002 11:27:39
bjc,
The Cherubs and the Shekinah Light were directly associated with the Ark. Moses was instucted to make the Cherubs for the Ark not the Ark for the Cherubs. The Shekinah Light as well was closely associated with the Ark since there is no record of it's appearance in the Most Holy when the Ark was not there, it too disappeared with the Ark. In addition, the Cherubs were made a part of the cover of the Ark.
Yes, it is true that God's Presence would be above the Ark but that too is very fitting since God resides in the heavens and not the earth. Yet where the Ark was, was also where God's earthly attention and therefore earthly presence and approval would be. Without the Ark there would be no Cherubs or Shekinah Light in the Most Holy, therefore without the Ark there would then be no Presence of God. With the Ark are the Cherubs, the Shekinah Light and the Presence of God.
The question remains why is there no Ark represented in Ezekiel's Temple. I believe the answer is because when Ezekiel speaks of "Jehovah" entering through the East gate (Ezekiel 44:1-3) it is in actuality the individual represented by the Ark in ancient Israel since of course God himself does not reside on earth and does not himself enter through gates but his representation can. As the Ark contained manna so the Chieftain "eats bread before Jehovah", the bread from God supplied to the Chieftain by means of the "Ark".
The Ark represents God's Presence and approval of the one who appears before it but as with the ancient Ark it remains in seclusion, it is the Chieftain that must implement the word of God.
Working in tandem these two individuals will accomplish the Will of God on earth and for a time will be unconquerable, f ulfilling Revelation 11.
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