Why would an omnipotent god need to become flesh in order to sacrifice himself to himself, so that his creations may escape the wrath of himself?
an excellent question
by donkey 20 Replies latest jw friends
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avishai
Why sould an omnipotent, omniscient, & omnibenevolent god tell his people to bash babies heads out against rocks & then tell them to be peaceful & "turn the other cheek" "love your enemy"? If he was omniscient, why did'nt he see the whole "satan thing" coming, & if he did, why the whole cosmic bar bet over sovreignty? Would'nt that make him an accomplice to Satans crimes? It's irreconcilable, just like your question donkey, because the judeo-christian view of god is inherently flawed.
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IslandWoman
Donkey,
Because he came to realize he had raised the bar too high. So he in effect bit his own tongue rather than to curse man forever for not meeting the bar.
IW
Edited by - IslandWoman on 24 November 2002 14:40:57
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rem
Because he came to realize he had raised the bar too high
In which case he/she/it/they is (are?) definitely not Omniscient, and most probably not Omnipotent.
rem
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IslandWoman
Rem,
In which case he/she/it/they is (are?) definitely not Omniscient, and most probably not Omnipotent
Agreed.
IW
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JH
Why would an omnipotent god need to become flesh
An active witness, would say that Jehovah and Jesus are two different people just to begin with. That answers half of your question. -
donkey
An active witness, would say that Jehovah and Jesus are two different people just to begin with. That answers half of your question.
I know that is a JW answer. However, I have a version specially for them:
Why would an omnipotent god need to have his own son become flesh in order to sacrifice his own son to himself, so that his creations may escape the wrath of himself?
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pettygrudger
Why would an omnipotent god have created man in his own image in the first place, give them the ability to think & reason for themselves, then get pissed off cuz they used it and allow mankind for 6000+ years suffer because of it?
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fairy
good point pettygrudger, i never thought of it that way.......why give people a free will to chose when if you dont do what he says you die....what a choice.
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AGuest
Why would an omnipotent god need to become flesh in order to sacrifice himself to himself, so that his creations may escape the wrath of himself?
1. He didn't need to become flesh, nor did He.
2. He didn't need to sacrifice Himself, nor did He.
3. He didn't need to raise/lower the "bar," nor did He.
He had no standard, other than the LOVING warning not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad (notice, it is NOT "the Tree of Knowledge," but the Tree of the Knowledge of Good... AND Bad...), so that that His children, Adam and Eve, wouldn't die. Unfortunately, they did not heed the warning, and so they lost their "right" as children, to remain in God's "garden"... or house... and were cast out. Since they were out, their children were also out.
God's Law was not changed: it was neither increased... nor decreased. It was... fulfilled... by Christ... and thereafter... "done away with." The contract/covenant was MET... and retired... so that a NEW Covenant could be put in place. Like any contract: once the terms are met IN FULL, the contract is retired. There are no more provisions to perform, no more payments to make. The debt is "cancelled". Same thing here: God made a contract with Israel; Israel couldn't perform. So God allowed the contract to be PURCHASED by another, who purchased it with his LIFE... so that all those who were under the contract could now do one of two things:
1. Continue trying to perform under the original contract, but they would, of course, fail; OR
2. "Sell" themselves to the one who purchased that contract on their behalf, and enter into a NEW contract... with him.
The terms of the first contract were the "thou shalt nots" and other decrees. The terms of the NEW contract is "you must love God with you whole heart, soul, mind and strength, AND... you must love your neighbor as you love yourself."
The terms of the first contract included animal sacrifices pursuant to a named priesthood, with an annual atonement by a high priest. The terms of the NEW contract called for "daily" sacrifices, by means of eating the flesh and body of its mediator, who would then offer up such "atonement" on one's behalf for virtually everything (save blasphemy against the holy spirit, which means lying on, against or trying to fool that spirit).
God destroyed all humans but eight once. He was provoked to wanting to do so again, several times, but each time the intervention of some (Abraham, Moses, etc.) precluded Him from doing so.
The ULTIMATE intervention was the sacrifice of His SON... who willingly sacrificed himself... to pay the price that Death... who, due to Adam obeying HIM vs. obeying God, who CHOSE Death over Life, and thus "sold" himself AND his offspring to that one, Death, now held man captive... to sickness, aging and death... demanded: in order to release man from the "slavery" to sin and death that Adam had sold man into, Death required ONE life in return... a sinLESS life, meaning a sinLESS spirit, for although he had 'stung' many, a sinFUL life/spirit was of no value to Death, as they abounded everywhere. But a sinLESS one was rare, almost nonexistent, for there was only one.
It is/was not the "wrath" of God than man escapes by means of Christ's sacrifice: it is the BOND, the SLAVERY... to sin... and therefore, to Death... that man escapes by means of the sacrifice of Christ.
God's wrath, however, is reserved for those who do not have the Christ... both flesh... Gog... and spirit beings... Magog: the "heavens (spirits alienated from God) and earth (flesh alienated from God) that are NOW", which are "stored up for fire". Because such ones continue to persecute the Christ by means of how they treat his brothers, they were/are "cut off" from entry into New Jerusalem and thus, from eating from the Tree of Life... which is IN that city. However, at the instigation of Satan upon his loosening from the abyss... those, as well as the spirits hurled down with Satan (but who were not abyssed with him) attempt to come again New Jerusalem, and conquer it so as to gain entry therein and access to the Tree of LIFE... who resides inside that city. But God does not let that happen! THAT... is the "great day of God Almighty"... the event that takes place at "Har-Maggedon"... where fire comes down OUT of heaven... and destroys Gog and Magog.
THAT... is the culimnation of the "wrath" of God. And that is AFTER the 1,000 years have ended, and result in a "new" heavens (cleansed spirit realm) and "new" earth (cleaned physical realm).
Revelation 20:7-10.
That's it; that's all... and it ain't rocket science, truly.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
Edited by - AGuest on 24 November 2002 18:27:0