an excellent question

by donkey 20 Replies latest jw friends

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  A Paduan

  Why would an omnipotent god need to become flesh in order to sacrifice himself to himself, so that his creations may escape the wrath of himself?

  The need to part seems presumptuous for any, but anyway, the best leaders do lead by example (become flesh).

  Aside from that, the sacrifice of self is the way of true self, if indeed your true self is love, any other is a lie about the gift of oneself.

  The "wrath of Himself" describes the state that is being without being true to self - and He has personally come and showed us how to be who we really are.

  Like Paul said "if anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him" - i.e. "if you are and prefer to cease to be, then you will cease to be, for you are because of God, not of yourself"

  paduan

  Edited by - a paduan on 24 November 2002 18:55:53
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  Realist

  Hi AGuest,

  question: does this explanation sound logical to you or did you just state the official christian reasoning?
• 

  joannadandy

  good point pettygrudger, i never thought of it that way.......why give people a free will to chose when if you dont do what he says you die....what a choice.

  Kind of like when Jehovahs Witnesses have kids, tell them to "make the truth their own" and then tell them later, "but if ya don't we'll never speak to you again, nor will any of your friends" Another excellent choice.

  Maybe they really are the spokespeople for God, they sure have his rationales worked out. "My way or else"
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  Iwasyoungonce

  "Why would an omnipotent god need to become flesh in order to sacrifice himself to himself, so that his creations may escape the wrath of himself?"

  Sounds like a delusional Bipolar when you put it that way.

  Of course maybe we have "God" all wrong. Maybe when we stop turning to man for answers of metaphysical truth which no one knows, understands, or can prove then maybe we can start to learn, or start to want to want to learn how to fix our own problems ourselves. God never fixed my toliet before when my work made it overflowith. I seriously doubt that he will intervine in the future...But of course anytime he wants to plunge that plunger he is more than welcome. Until then I will do it myself.

  I hear that "Jehovah god" is going to come kill all the little baby's soon. Bull. No he ain't. And that god can go screw itself. Whatever relgion puts the almight as a murdering fiend can kiss my butt. That jw god they say is "Jehovah" well just because they use that name does not make it all holy. It offends me that anyone would use names like Jesus and Jehovah along with the Jehovah Witnesses and then say we all are talking aobut the same diety. HA! The god they worship has about ass much power over any person as Zeus or Baal. Are they the all mighty gods as true as Jehovah? Whatever. Like I said that god "Jehovah" that the jw's worship the ones that write magazines out of New York in the United States. The ones that claim to have talents directed by some higher diety. The men that once said Ray Franz were one of. The man who wrote the book "Crisis of Concience." Where in the book he admits not only is there no insperation but he did not even want to vote the way things went. Therefore these men are doing the opposite of what even some of their concience are telling them. That is what any sane person would run from. Of course I am not claiming that relgion's gods are sane. They are usually just plain mean.

  I would (and will) never have any interactions with any God that DEMANDS that I worship him. I do not want my children or my friends to worship me. I want to help them when I can. I see God as at least as good as that. And for me that is enough. I believe that life is as good as we make it. As good as we want to see it. So I work to find contentment where and when I can.(In All Things) I remember Paul talking about this towards the end of his life. Read his life's journies if you dare. Try to imagine that faith that strength that contentment. Just try it. For me it has been pretty cool.
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  Mum

  A not necessarily excellent answer: because His ghost writers were/are all weirdos, crackpots, mentally ill, insane, delusional, or in some other unhealthy state.

  SandraC
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  AGuest

  Dear Realist... may you have peace.

  I assumed (though perhaps I shouldn't have, 'cause you know what they say about that...), that "Donkey" had asked a sincere question, and desired a sincere answer. I responded then, in sincerity... and with truth. I did not, however, include scriptures and verses from the Bible, as I usually do, because I had company and didn't want to be rude. I can do that, if you need... provide support. Just let me know.

  Again, I bid you peace.

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ
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  avishai

  aguest, what makes what you say, or the bible, for that matter, the truth?
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  donkey

  Sounds like a delusional Bipolar when you put it that way.

  I agree. But then what part of the way I put it is incorrect? Some may find subtleties to differ on - but in the grand scheme of things the question certainly seems spot on to me.
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  Iwasyoungonce

  "But then what part of the way I put it is incorrect?"

  None Donkey. I have no issue with your question. Nor you. I think that you are right on. And, when you put it that way then....Maybe someone needs a little metaphysical lithium. (When I die I will be buried with a little containier of lithium. When I AM in heaven I will give it to God, with some anti-depressiants maybe he will be a little happier and stop all the doom and gloom drama...Or maybe the doom and gloom outlook on the world is BS.)
  
  I have said many times that I think that we have "God" all wrong. To understand "faith" is easy. And, it is internal. It is about YOU and only YOU. To understand "religon" is a waste of time. It is not real. It is something for people who are either at the top and/or looking to exploite people who are weaker than them or people who are too weak to be who they are. They need an external "truth" because the internal "truth" has either been silenced by apathy or they are just too scared to look at it. (For them) It is easier to dismiss or kill anyone who will be with "God" in an independent faith. Ideology just sucks when it is forced on other people who do not want or need it. And it is the responsibility for the common man to always question those who are in authority to keep in check "if" that authority is valid. That authority just or unjust may kill without your permission. But, they can not control you without your permission. How many relgions or people say believe my way. Accept my way as the only way to help people or to know god. Follow me because I work magic. "Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtian." (We need more Dorathys)
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  AGuest

  Dearest Avishai... may you have peace.

  Please know that neither what *I* say... nor the Bible... is truth. There is only One Truth (John 14:6) and I have only shared what was given me by that One (John 10:27). Now, whether you hear... or refrain... is entirely up to you. Someone asked a sincere question; others responded with sincere answers. I was among them. Now it is up to the questioner to determine whether or not he/she was told the truth... and by whom, if anybody.

  Truth is not compelled, dear Avishai. Simply, he exists as Truth... and speaks only truth (Proverbs 8:4-11). And that voice is available to be heard... by anyone. All one needs is faith... the size of a mustard seed.

  As for me, I am nothing more than a servant, a good-for-nothing slave... whose master gave such truth and directed to speak... and so I did. I received it free; I gave it free. I obey him, his voice, his command as it is given to me, and that's it, that's all (Ezekiel 3:20, 21). The questioner did not have to go anywhere, do anything or pay any amount. Nor did you. All he/she needed do was hear, if he or she truly wants to know what the truth is. And indeed, if ncessary, the "inspired expression" can always be tested out.

  But... I do not concern myself with whether or not others hear. That... is purely between him and them.

  Again, I bid you peace.

  YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,

  SJ