Hi sf; You seemed to have assumed that I have discovered or uncovered some dirty watchtower details that others have yet to. If I have, I am not sharing them! It doesn't really matter in the long term anyway. The "Watch Tower Roots" is a synopsis of a wealth of information. I once benefitted from others' research when I was exiting and I presume that others might also via my contibution here. The nitty gritty details are pointless. What does scandal accomplish? What did the UN scandal accomplish? What will the Rand-Cam scandal accomplish? And what will the pedophillia scandal accomplish? My dirt will accomplish the same---Very Little! You of all persons seem to be aware of how the Watcher corporation is connected in the secular world. Besides, this presentation is predicated upon a different world view that most participants cannot, and possibly will not, come to grips with. I am not seeking converts to a movement or my point of view. This presentation will make sense to a few individuals only---the penny will drop. This is, and will be, my only post.
Watch Tower Roots:
by blackguard 40 Replies latest jw friends
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Farkel
blackguard,
: You have quite an extensive and impressive vocabulary.
Yes, I do, but not in this thread. With a whopping ten posts (unless you've lurked on my posts for half-a-decade) you wouldn't be in any position to test or evaluate it.
Care to, or were you just being sarcastic? Which choice is suitable for you? I can play. I know lotsa words. I know words that you probably didn't know were words.
Farkel
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PopeOfEruke
HI Farkel!
: You have quite an extensive and impressive vocabulary.
I think that was a pretty good comeback by our friend Mr Guard. Of course I wasn't on the receiving end of it but it made me chuckle nevertheless - it was suave and elegant with just a nice edge of cutting sarcasm. I rated it quite highly.....
Pope
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blackguard
Hi Farkel, I'll take your word that you're a magnificent wordsmith. Because I have no plans to be a participant beyond this post, I'll decline your gracious offer to play. Hi Pope; Yes,some people say sarcasm is a low form of wit. I say it's simply a form of humor.
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blackguard
Hi sf; I did say that I wouldn't share what I'd uncovered. I stand by that. However, it may interest you to know that Lyndon Larouche maybe (underline MAYBE) poised to, directly or indirectly, expose the Watch Tower in his investigative stories surrounding the Moonies and the "Christian Zionist apparatus". Checkout one of the latest stories on larouchepub.com. John Nelson Darby might be the key to start you off on your investigation. This is my last entry---I bid you all farewell. Blackguard
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Dia
Can somebody condense this original post into '25 words or less'?
Just so I have a starting point??! I'm lost.
Edited by - Dia on 28 November 2002 6:54:45
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blackguard
PS. Forgive me---- I gave an incorrect website address. For Dr.Henry Makow:-www.savethemales.ca (NOT dot com). "The Life Of An American Jew in Racist-Marxist Israel" by Jack Rubenstein and Len Martin in 1984 can be found on www.rense.com/general31/lifeof.htm and archives listed at the end.
cya
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abbagail
Interesting post at the top of the thread on CT Russell's connections... too bad Blackguard didn't list references. From what I can tell, he accumulated the info from his reading from various sources/sites.
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Someone else on another thread (2001) posted inside this thread, and wrote:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=7385&site=3
[...]
One only has to read the 1913 Convention report to see Russell's involvment with Masonry.
http://www.exjws.net/museum/masonry.htm
After reading this, one has to ask themselves, did Russell bring his Masonic beliefs and his Masonic world view into the Watchtower?
Just look at the Masonic symbols used by Russell on the magazines and books printed in the early stages of the WTBTS.
I agree with you that Russell might have been trying to seduce some Masons. I wonder if there is actually any truth in a few of the books I read that the WT in the early stages was financed by Freemasonry and Zionism. The Bible Students I deal with will gladly tell you that Russell was a Zionist. Of course the BS do not care for me to be on their forums.
Just a few things Russell said from the 1913 Convention report.
"I say to you dear friends, We of the Free and Accepted Order of Masons of the Lord Jesus Christ's Commandery have the very highest standard...
"One of the highest of this order of ours, a thirty-second degree spiritual Mason. I will call him St. Paul. St. Paul in one of his epistles boasted about the kinds of marks he bore...They were marks such as our Savior had, and such as all the high spiritual Masons must have...
"Are you laying aside the works these things that belong to our order of Free and Accepted Masonry? It is the grandest Masonry of all."
Russell refered to Christ as the great Mason and that the Lord's church is a secret order. He said that Jesus was the cheif Mason and that the world did not know him but did slay him. Russell refered to the Great Pyramid as an emblem the Masons use.
Yes, I agree that Russell was using terms as far as a Bible Masonry, but I think it was more than that when you read the evidence and see Russell's involvment.
[...]
END QUOTE.
Others in that thread bashed all of that.
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Another interesting quote from blackguard which I had never heard in all the years here...
[...]
One researcher claims that C.T.Russell's name did appear in the mother Lodge [of FreeMasonry] in Ireland and that this was testified to by several individuals who sighted it there. I don't know if this is true. The difficulty one might have in "proving" a matter is the insistence upon applying the hellenic system of logic. Even the acceptable legal theory of circumstantial evidence is flawed when one considers that a lot of 'felons' get released from prisons annually because other hard evidence later surfaces to clear them of crimes. I would suggest that the semitic axiom has merit,." by their fruits shall ye recognize them". I think if one applies this rule to a situation over a period of time or activity a pattern emerges of what this person or group really represents. In the case of bona fide masons, one should remember that being on a Lodge registry doesn't mean they're part of a world wide conspiracy or hidden agenda any more than the rank and file are privy to the hidden agendas that some executives of the Watcher corporation know about. I propose in the case of the Watcher corporation of looking at the type of fruits it produces and going the next step to see if its roots is responsible for its bad fruitage.
[...]
END QUOTE.
After a few bashings, blackguard added this...
[...]
There seems to be an element in the xjw movement (if it could be defined as such) that are covert WTS apologists or sympatheziers, insistent that certain things aren't so. My point in identifying a difference in hellenic and semitic thinking is that the latter is rather simple: 'If it waddles like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, if it looks like a duck and if it lives in an enclosure full of duckshit, it is in all probability a duck despite its pleas and its apologists to the contrary'. I think the bottom line to these type of discussions is that people are going to believe what they need to believe and no amount of 'evidence' is going to convince them otherwise. And I'm not in the business of needing to convince people. I remember once telling an intelligent young wippersnapper that the ladder he was about to embark had a broken rung and to be careful when he got half-way up; his attitude was because he couldn't see it he wouldn't believe it. When he fell off the ladder his stunned look amused me. (Fortunately he wasn't hurt)
[...]
END QUOTE.
How true, and lol.
And later this...
[...]
The "Watch Tower Roots" is a synopsis of a wealth of information. I once benefitted from others' research when I was exiting and I presume that others might also via my contibution here. The nitty gritty details are pointless. What does scandal accomplish? What did the UN scandal accomplish? What will the Rand-Cam scandal accomplish? And what will the pedophillia scandal accomplish? My dirt will accomplish the same---Very Little! You of all persons seem to be aware of how the Watcher corporation is connected in the secular world. Besides, this presentation is predicated upon a different world view that most participants cannot, and possibly will not, come to grips with. I am not seeking converts to a movement or my point of view. This presentation will make sense to a few individuals only---the penny will drop. This is, and will be, my only post.
[...]
END QUOTE.
Oh boy, once people hear this next name, they will shriek louder re: "conspiracy theories"... This post also by blackguard...
[...]
...it may interest you to know that Lyndon Larouche maybe (underline MAYBE) poised to, directly or indirectly, expose the Watch Tower in his investigative stories surrounding the Moonies and the "Christian Zionist apparatus". Checkout one of the latest stories on larouchepub.com. John Nelson Darby might be the key to start you off on your investigation. This is my last entry---I bid you all farewell. Blackguard
[...]
For the newbies crowd since all of this was from 2001/2002. -
cameo-d
Russell refered to Christ as the great Mason and that the Lord's church is a secret order
....so jesus was a mason?
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abbagail
Blackguard got the name wrong, above. The author was Jack BERNSTEIN, not RUBENSTEIN. He wrote two short books circa 1984-1985, and copies were later re-published...
http://books.google.com/books?q=%22Jack+Bernstein%22+Israel&btnG=Search+Books
Book: "The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel" - Copyright 1984 by Jack Bernstein and Leonard (Len) Martin.
Book: "My Farewell To Israel The Thorn in the Mideast" - By Jack Bernstein.
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The various editions/publishers from google books, link above:
In Racist Marxist Israel: The Life of an American Jew
By Jack Bernstein
Published by G S G & Associates, Incorporated, 1984
ISBN 0945001967, 9780945001966
56 pages
The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel
By Jack Bernstein
Published by The Noontide Press, 1984
The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel
By Jack Bernstein, Len Martin
Published by The Noontide Press, 1991
61 pages
My Farewell to Israel: The Thorn in the Mideast
By Jack Bernstein
Published by G S G & Associates, Incorporated, 1984
ISBN 0945001975, 9780945001973
My Farewell to Israel: The Thorn in the Mideast
By Jack Bernstein, Len Martin
Published by Pro-American Press, 1985
41 pages