If God isn't a flesh and blood human he cant crap. If he can't crap he can't do everything and isn't omnipotent. If he isn't omnipotent he must be impotent. If he his impotent he can't get a stiffy so Jesus isn't realy his son. So if Jesus was a bastard who was fooling around with mary. And will I go to hell for drawing this to your attention? Qustions Questions Questions
If someone had the answers that made sense I would listen !
Yes it's true God can see the future, but he can choose not to see it.
This is a basic example of an "irrefutable hypothesis", which basically means that there is no way to falsify the claim. If the claim cannot be falsified, then it is safe to ignore it. Why waste any time trying to understand an ad-hoc made-up theory that cannot be proven wrong?
This the tactic that most believers turn to when they are backed into a logical corner. Unfortunately they don't seem to understand that this type of argument does not provide any evidence for their side, and only shows that they are holding on to an irrational belief. They are basically saying, "no evidence you can show me will convince me that I'm wrong."
Joanna I've wondered many of the same things and for years I've questioned a god that would allow "his" innocent children to be harmed in ANYWAY! As a parent (by the grace of god?) I would protect my children to my own death from anything I had the power to do. That said I cannot understand a "perfect" creature, one the bible wants us to believe is love personified could actually sit on his heavenly throne and watch the world and all of mankind (his creation) suffer. That is not love! He must be taking one really BIG CRAP.......[>:(]
Perhaps the point is growth. In my experience, I have found that my spiritual growth is very limited when everything is going my way. I am perfectly content to be fat, dumb, and happy in my comfortable experience. Ah, but when things go wrong: I am impelled to make a change, to look at things differently, to question my values, to seek answers to my questions. I grow in the process. Look what happens to the children of rich folks who never have any problems to overcome, who never face any challenges. They typically turn out to be "duds" and a great disappointment to their parents. In my life, the impetus for change was when my wife decided to become a JW. I was a career Air Force officer. She also wanted to raise the kids as JWs. I had to make some major changes in my outlook and thinking if I wanted to stay in my marriage which I did. I had a lot of questions that needed answering. Perhaps our earthly experience is the only way that God can experience His creation; through us. You can be conscious of your real self through meditation. Jesus said, "the kingdom of God is within you". He appears to have been aware of his real self which may explain his saying,"I have meat to eat that you know not of". Of course the christian religion being taught today doesn't appear to have very much to do with what Jesus taught. Many on this board would say, and rightly so, that religion is a "snare and a racket".
For those of you not familiar with JosephAlward, unless he has had a major belief change recently, he's mearly playing Devil's advocate on this thread. I have to agree with his observation, though. Obviously, the "selective foreknowledge" scenario (I remember my mom having a talk on this topic once. I thought it was pretty lame back then, too.) gives God a very convienient out in this case, but it is perfectly possible for a God who can have knowledge of the future to choose not to do so. It makes him incompetent and foolish for not doing so and checking the possible consequences of his actions, though (I'm sure most JW's wouldn't want God painted this way ), and he certainly isn't anywhere near close off the hook with the totally silly "free will" argument.
joannadandy, I've had similar thoughts to yours on this subject for a long time now. I always thought the entire "bet with the Devil" scenario was a bit sophomoric for the all powerful, all wise God of the universe. Punishing the entire human race for the sins of 2 people? Sometimes I wonder how I even managed to believe alot of this stuff to begin with.
the "selective foreknowledge" scenario...gives God a very convienient out in this case, but it is perfectly possible for a God who can have knowledge of the future to choose not to do so. It makes him incompetent and foolish for not doing so and checking the possible consequences of his actions.
Joe Alward responds:
If God chose to know all of the future, man would have no free will. Evidently--if the Bible is to be believed--it was more important to God that man have a choice in his actions than it was for God to know in advance all of the consequences of his acts. But, isn't it quite understandable for this god--if it exists--NOT to want to know what will happen? Who among us would choose to know exactly what will happen to us at each and every one of the future moments of our lives? I wouldn't want to have this foreknowledge, so perhaps even if there were no question of God giving man free will, wouldn't he choose not to know the future anyway?
Edited by - JosephAlward on 10 December 2002 20:17:44
I see it this way... time and space are the same thing, think of it as a 'lump'. God knows the past and future and all space (I say because he is that lump, but lets just say he knows all of it).
We still live our serial lives which are paths through that lump of space and time. The idea of past and future only has the meaning it does have to us becuase of our perspective. We do make choices and alter our course through time and space, but only from our perspective. God's perspective is different. We see life as a journey, God sees the universe as all happening at the same time. To him there is no future and no past.
This is important to me, my whole outlook on life is now based on this.
