Some Satanists can try to appease us by stating that Satan really refers only to the forces of nature. But not all Satanists feel that way. Some worship a being. Moreover, not only do Satanists celebrate the Black Mass, but some have also been guilty of ritual abuse. It appears that Jehovah's Witness elders and Catholic priests do not have a monoply on sexual abuse.
Satanism is misunderstood
by donkey 17 Replies latest watchtower bible
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avishai
Let's not get "The church of Satan" confused W/ "Satanism". The church of satan is more what donkey is talking about. In the article that Kenneson brings out it is usually "satanists" who do these things, "satanists" are usually just D & D dumbshits who do things like read the bible backwards at a black mass. YEs, they do exist & are scary, but different from the COS as the Cos does'nt even believe in the bible.
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donkey
They receive their teaching and power through the Holy Spirit, and in no way need to rely on the presence of Satan to validate what they do
The church of Satan has no need for some mythical holy spirit. They have no need for Satan to validate what they do either. The members know that there is no persona called Satan.
You, and I say this with disrespect intended, are reacting to what I post from your belief system. I do not fault YOU for that because like most people in such systems you are a victim. A victim of what? A victim of media relations and thought control.
If there is anything I have learned it is finding out facts and evidence, and trying to cast off the mindset we all had as JW's of acting within the framework of a belief system. Neon, I am in no way advocating that you or anyone start worshipping something evil. In fac the very concept of something like "worship" is despicable to me because as long as I wanted to worship something - be it God, or some spirit or something - I was giving it power over me. Now the worshipped object probably cannot do anything with the power, however, where the abuse occurs is when a fellow human is appointed (by themself or otherwise) to be the spokesperson of the said worshipped object. This it the real danger in all of religion - be it Satanic, demonic, foreign or Christian.
As far as Black Mass - Kenneson - why not find out why its done?
I can save you a lot of time though - its done to push your religious buttons, esp. if you are a member of the worlds largest Christian denomination. There is NO power from spirit control, be it God or demon or satan. The power comes from the belief inside you and from you handing over control.
My final point - why did I start this thread? For the same reason as Black Mass is celebrated. To make you feel uncomfortable. But also to make you see that what people believe without evidence can be wrong. The Church of Satan immediately conjures up demonic ghastly images in your mind. I never did that - your beliefs did that to you. Try to somehow please see yourself as being different than your beliefs. The JW's always said "being a Witness is a way of life". That's true. When you accept something without evidenciary challenge it can be come you - you become oine with the belief system and that is why people like me find it incredibly hard to reason with believers based on evidence.
I mean no harm in all of this - those that know me understand I am a truly mild Donkey and would never hurt a fly or encourage anyone else to do so either.
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Kenneson
Donkey,
The title of your thread is "Satanism is misunderstood." Is it really? If the Church of Satan doesn't want to be identified with other Satanists why choose that name in the first place? Perhaps the materialistic Satanists like yourself are misunderstood because for you Satan is not real and all rituals you engage in are for fun. But then there are mystical Satanists who believe in an impersonal spirit power (one positive and one negative) that can be tapped for their personal beliefs and they seek negative power. Then, there are the mad Satanists, those who believe in God and Satan, profess to follow Satan and who have no hangups about participating in ritual abuse. They consider your type of belief pop Satanism. So maybe your thread should read "Church of Satan is misunderstood" to be more accurate.
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Kenneson
The Church of Satan also has its apostates. Do a search for The Bifid Barb: Satanic Cultism Exposed.
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Kenneson
The Bifid Barb
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NeonMadman
You, and I say this with disrespect intended, are reacting to what I post from your belief system.
Well, of course. How else can I, or anyone else react, except from within the context of one's own beliefs? Are you implying that Satanists are somehow 100% objective and thus exempt from such criticism?
Neon, I am in no way advocating that you or anyone start worshipping something evil. In fac the very concept of something like "worship" is despicable to me
I never said that you were. I wasn't referring to worship in what I wrote above. I tried to convey that I thought your rhetoric was rather deceptive, in that you were implying that other religionists would be dishonest about Satanism, and that only by going to Satanists themselves could we know the real truth about their beliefs and practices. I compared that to similar statements made by the JW's, and pointed out why such statements tend to be deceptive.
I also took you to task for advancing a philosophy that one should "Live for yourself thats all that matters". I pointed out that such thinking is unacceptable both socially and spiritually, and that the actions that would ordinarily follow in the life of one who embraces such a philosophy would be regarded by the majority of us as being evil, since if one lives 'for himself and that's all", there is no need for him to refrain from harming others, as long as he pleases himself. We criticize the JW's because they fail to take adequate actions to stop pedophiles in their congregations. But under your philosophy, there is no reason for the pedophile to be stopped, since his actions 'work for him', and he is told to live only for himself.
where the abuse occurs is when a fellow human is appointed (by themself or otherwise) to be the spokesperson of the said worshipped object.
I agree completely. Which is why Christians are called upon to be discerning. "Test the spirits," we are told, and "prove all things". If you follow men, you will surely be misled. A true Christian's connection is to God; all earthly things are secondary at best. That's why I bristle a bit when you attack Christianity because of the actions of some church leaders. There have been many wrongs perpetrated in the name of Christianity, but those things are not Christianity, and real Christianity is not diminished by them. Such things only provide a roadblock to seekers in recognizing the heart of Christianity, which is a personal relationship with Christ. If one truly has that, then he will not be swayed by the actions of hypocritical religionists. But one who does not yet have such a relationship might well be put off from seeking one due to the actions of religious pretenders. And, of course, those who seek to turn others away from Christ can use such antics as a weapon.
Again, I can draw a parallel to the JW's. JW's are taught that all other religions are evil and of no value. They, too, point to all the bad things done in the name of Christianity, and condemn the churches wholesale on account of them. As a result (and as is borne out in the stories of many on this forum), many who leave the JW's are loath to even consider visiting another church. Some finally do so, after a long period of adjustment. Others never do, and simply become irreligious. Each one's path is his own to choose, but I would point out that many churches are not anything like what the JW's tar them to be. Many churches have better and more extensive Bible study programs than any Kingdom Hall, but you'd never know that from being a JW - they present only their own side of the story, and distort the facts in order to keep the blinders on their own people. You'd only find out by actually taking the step, and attending a church.
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Ravyn
In my OPINION, there are three different kinds of "Satanists" with many many shades and degrees in each category. However most pagans and all christians lump "satanists" in the same gravy.....a negative one. So for reference if anyone is interested, and of course this is only my OPINION, not fact(as if fact was even an option...)---
Satanists:
Pagan(Traditional Satanists): one who believes in a deity/deities/aspects of deities, who predated the xtian adoption of a bad guy image, usually a horned god or a dark goddess(most call themselves Luciferians to distinguish the enlightening/gnostic aspects of Satan rather than the rebellious nature divided on the issue of whether or not to practice magick, but usually very into ritual;
Anti-Xtian(call themselves Traditional Satanists---but generally piss off all the other Satanists by doing so): one who actually worships the xtian idea of a satan or devil(usually fund among rebellious youth goth groups and not accepted by MOST other groups calling themselves Satanists--these are the ones who are stereotyped as sacrificing virgins, pets and babies.)many are into Chaos magick(altho generally NOT well educated in such), shapeshifting and literal or energy(psi) vampyrism and anything else that they think will shock or piss off their parents. Cult followers of movies.
Atheist/Humanist(Modern Satanists): ones who embrace the idea of Satan as depicted in modern day religions to represent personal freedom, empowerment, enlightenment, self-perpetuation, and personal responsibility(most likely Libertarian in their political veiws and very self-actualized, intellectual people). also divided on the issue of magickal practice, usually the ones supporting it are into thelema and chaos. Usually followers of Anton LaVey's brand of 1960's Satanism. Divided after Dr. LaVey's death into two camps---very nasty rivalry due to rightful inheritance.
I personally have come to the conclusion that since we have two hands---right and left---that maybe both canprove useful at the proper times. My pagan path of Stregheria I do not consider to be a right-hand path, because it has no rede governing personal conscience and cursing. But, especially in matters of healing I can see the benefits of Wiccan et al and even Xtianity. My second 'rule' in Chaos Magick is--IF IT WORKS KEEP IT UNTIL IT QUITS.
Ravyn