Seven my apologies if nuance was lost in the above post – it wasn’t meant to be an attack if that’s how it was perceived. My point was the “can’t see for looking scenario” and that the WTBTS is an organised religion and not christianity. So that true christianity is definitely a place we can turn to without disappointment. True christianity of course entails equality & responsibility for oneself before the creator rather than having our minds set to the comfort zone of default organizational policy as a life style choice.
Purgatory, Limbo or the Twilight Comfort Zone
by SolidSender 67 Replies latest jw friends
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Carmel
SS,
Your comments about "Christianity" as a "place to go to" are well taken. However, it may suprise you that the term means many things to many people, myself not the exception. Having never lost my belief that Jesus was an historical figure who was responsible for the eventual development of over a billion followers, twice that collectively over time, and for other reasons I define myself as "Christian". At the same time you would find that of all those that consider themselves "Christian" a miniscule percentage would consider me as "one of them".
So considering "Christianity" is not a bad place to start as it can lead to lots of destinations. But then one has to contend with how broadly or narrowly one defines the title "Christ".
cheers,
carmel
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SolidSender
Carmel – thanks. You’ll note I was qualifying christianity with the word “true”. The point I was trying to make was that firstly there is nothing wrong with christianity and that secondly what the WTBTS teaches is not christianity and should not be confused with or mistaken for it. In true christianity all persons are equal before the Father and the Son, responsible as individuals for their words, thoughts and deeds before the Father & the Son, are judged as individuals by the Father and the Son,
Require no other mediator than Jesus between themselves and God and are motivated by love rather than fear guilt, shame and organisational policy (law & works). My view is that men may try and lead christianity in a lot of different directions however when you look into it without indoctrinated preconception ( ie read the bible ) I think the spirit of Christianity becomes fairly obvious. -
Pathofthorns
Great comment SS. I don't think Christianity needs to be so complicated as we want to make it sometimes. The basics that you stated are usually lost when an organized religion gets to "organized".
Path
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Frenchy
Interesing points. What was Paul? What did he and the other apostles develop in the first century? How can the message that Jesus said would be preached be delived by individuals on their own? How can you come together with no rules? Who makes up the general rules of conduct so necessary for orderly meetings?
I suppose my question boils down to: Can you be a Christian apart from the group? -
RedhorseWoman
I suppose my question boils down to: Can you be a Christian apart from the group?
I think the question needs to be reworded. Can you be a Christian in spite of the group?
Once religion gets organized and establishes rules, it frequently seems that the basic tenet of Christianity gets lost in the shuffle.
Rather than establishing a relationship with God and Jesus, the members are urged to look to the "church" so that they can approach God properly.
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Seven
Correct me if I'm wrong but the meetings of the first Christians were not held in churches but in private homes or outdoors. I believe it was in Acts that we are given the first glimpse of a christian meeting indoors-in an upper room in Jerusalem. I think this was a model of true Christianity without all the burdens that come with belonging to an organization. I am in agreement with RedhorseWoman when she said:
Rather than establishing a relationship with God and Jesus, the members are urged to look to the "church" so that they can approach God properly.
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SolidSender
Frenchy - excellent question, also rehorsewomans post a couple above, so here's another question - Can a group exist without loss of individual identities? Christianity seems to be an individual-centric one to one faith than a group -one in many respects. I'm not married to that idea though. On a more fundamental level it seems that whenever you get any kind of group of people together, even a group as small as two or three all sorts of shit starts to enter the dynamic and the mob mind begins to make it's presence felt.
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Frenchy
Okay, let's pursue this, then. What do you suppose Jesus was after, individuals each going off his way and 'obeying his words' or do you suppose that he intended for them to congregate? If congregations are wrong then we will have to criticize Paul, James, John, Peter, etc. These men spent their lives forming and tending to congregations. So what are we to do today?
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SolidSender
Path – re: your post 26th June , 8.45pm – well put. I guess for me the identity robbing aspect of the WTBTS is a major issue. Maybe my personality has a keener susceptibility to this, that’s why the only way for me to deal with it is – Cold Turkey. For those in the position with family ties with the lie you mention fading away, which I take to mean - cope? I would find continually hanging around the periphery most debilitating.