All depends on what you mean by 'better off'.
But, if we're to believe the words of ALL the great religions, there is nothing to seek and no satisfaction to found in lies, deceit, cruelty or hatred.
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman 118 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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Farkel
Jerry,
: My concern is, is theism true?
Theism implies that God is active in human affairs, albeit invisibly, while deism implies that God is not at all involved in human affairs.
In my point of view, and given only those two choices, the evidence (or rather the lack of evidence) is overwhelmingly in favor of the latter.
P.S. "Invisible" evidence doesn't count!
Farkel
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wednesday
jerry, u should rent the movie "chocolat" i believe sean Penn is the co starr. not sure about that.
Anyway it takes place in france i think in the late 50's. The catholic church ruled the town , and the mayor ruled the priest. In moved a free spirit woman and her young daughter, and opened a chocolate shop. people loved her b/c she was so kind and non judgemtal. Eventully the church grew to hate her and preached sermons against her. Then only a small handful of people stuck by her. Eventually the mayor grew to weary his irratinal hate of her, and she won them over and the church became a kinder place to go to.It was so much like the jws, i found it astounding. The whole town ruled by the church and they shunned her.Not that the jw could be won over-and that is the point. They are ruled by harsh discipline and not kindess.
Really u should see the movie.
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LDH
In a nutshell, yes.
There are many co-dependent people who do not have the brains, heart, or courage to break the destructive cycle they find themselves in.
For those people, they should stay with their co-dependent lover, and just continue to let their life force get sucked dry, cuz, hey that's what makes them happy.
For the rest of us, HELL NO.
By the way, I *hardly* think the Bible is the Authority on Morality. My so-called "father" created me imperfect and then expects me to work for the rest of my life to redeem myself. When all he has to do is push some button in the Great Beyond.
Lisa
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Jerry Bergman
funkyderek : As to
"If we didn't find it pleasurable we wouldn't do it. If we didn't do it, we wouldn't reproduce"
my response is we must have been created to find it pleasurable because if we didn't find it pleasurable we wouldn't ever have done it (and thus we would not have reproduced in the first place). Therefore, genes for enjoying sex must have existed from the beginning. Also, I know of no evidence that indicates that any animal enjoys sex for similar reasons. All the evidence is that it is instinctual, programmed, and not indulged in for pleasure. If any one knows of scientific research that supports the conclusion that animals enjoy sex for similar reasons, please inform the group.
Edited by - Jerry Bergman on 18 December 2002 9:54:51
Edited by - Jerry Bergman on 18 December 2002 9:57:23
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Sirona
Jerry, I read somewhere that Dolphins have sex for pleasure too.
Sirona
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Jerry Bergman
As to Farkel's post: Theism implies that God is active in human affairs, albeit invisibly, while deism implies that God is not at all involved in human affairs. In my point of view, and given only those two choices, the evidence (or rather the lack of evidence) is overwhelmingly in favor of the latter. This may be your experience, but the experience of many millions of persons, including myself, is, clearly, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the conclusion that God is active in the affairs of humans. Many persons have allowed their bitter experience with the Witnesses to blind themselves to objectively looking at all theistic world views.
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gumby
Also, I know of no evidence that indicates that any animal enjoys sex for similar reasons. All the evidence is that it is instinctual, programmed, and not indulged in for pleasure.
Jerry....what are these "similar reasons"? Also...it would seem by the ejaculation of a stud horse....indicates pleasure.....or they wouldn't ejaculate.
You said God is ACTIVE in human affairs.
How is God active as regards to Hunger, poverty, crime, war. How can your thought be justified when millions pray for relief of some type and never get a response from this......"active God"?
I too believe in God......but not the Bible God..........he's pretty mean.
The one I believe in seems kinda mean too cuz I haven't a clue why he/she/it, seemed to "QUIT"!
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Jerry Bergman
Sirona
I have read this too. We tend to see much that is human in the behavior of animals, but this is often due to anthropomorphism, not clear scientific evidence. My wife thinks our dog likes the same food we do (therefore loves prime rib) yet there is no evidence that he enjoys food in the same way we do. He assesses the food and selects some food and rejects other food (and may well enjoy food in the same way we do, but this is an assumptions on our part). In science we need evidence, not assumptions. The same is true in religion. This is why I left the Witnesses and became a Christian.
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Xander
Jerry, I read somewhere that Dolphins have sex for pleasure too.
That data was a LITTLE misleading. Dolphins have 'recreational sex', which isn't REALLY the same thing. ('Recreational', as in, the female of the species does indicate when she can conceive, as most species do, and dolphins are one of relatively few species - humans included - that will have sex anyway when it is not possible for conception, hence - 'recreational').
my response is we must have been created to find it pleasurable because if we didn't find it pleasurable we wouldn't ever have done it (and thus we would not have reproduced in the first place).
Well, see, that's not true, and you thus betray your lack of understanding of evolution. We almost certainly did it instinctively, as all other animals do, for most of our prehistory. As sentience started entering our species, the process surely continued. However, as cause->effect relationships started being understood, and the sex->childbirth relationship surely was. Thus, if the only thing to come of sex was a painful delivery, it would be unlikely to happen. If it was enjoyed, it would be more likely to occur. Those who actually enjoyed it would thus have more reproductive success than those who hated it (IE., have more kids because they have sex more often). Thousands of generations of that gets you to where we are today.
Edited by - Xander on 18 December 2002 10:24:45