Is Warning re Possible Lawsuit Required?

by Scully 25 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  JT

  Just some thoughts on the matter, Lady "C" and I already know what we will do if any elder approaches us about DAing us-

  just some things to consider this is what Lady "C" and I will do and ther reasons why

  --If they indicate to you that they are going to annouce you as being DAed at that point you should mention that you are going to take legal action against them, don't mention slander or anything else just indicate that you are taking legal action- just the phrase "Legal Action" is going to stop them in their shoes, and why well any good elder knows that the moment he heards "Legal Action" he HAS TO CALL THE LEGAL DESK_

  NOW FOR ME i will tell the elders before you make this annoucement you may want to consult with Phillip Brumley or Carolyn Wah (BE SURE TO NAME DROP) at bethel in the legal dept, now they are going to want to know how do you know someone in legal-

  Tell them you will be suing "Each one Separately" First you two clowns here in my living room, the Body of Elders and then the society, I will tell him to BE SURE TO ASK Phillip when he calls bethel will the sociey cover his personal court cost- I will then tell him -we all know that the wt has taken many steps to make sure that they are not Liable for WHAT YOU DO as you know-

  do you brothers recall the 6 things you were told to write in the flock book- (now if this is coming from a Sister they are going to almost pass out- how does she know so much) and they will be sure to tell anyone on the legal desk about the conversation as well-

  Be sure to let the elders know that you will be sending copies to the News both print and broadcast, the reason being is so they can tell the guys on the legal desk- wt hates bad publicity

  all of this will play into as to whether the legal desk will consider you WORTH THE EFFORT-

  they will ask the elder such questions as are they well known, are they advocating anything, newsletter, talk shows - sending out flyers to the friends, etc- unless you are a major threat in many cases the legal desk will tell them to hold up, of course they will be able to do the same thru the rumor mill, it will become known as in most of the cases i know of that the person threaten to sue the Society so it could not be announced, at that point all the local jw will consider you DAed anyway-

  but for me it will just be the fun of "Di*king" with them since they have done that to my life

  James
• 

  Mary

  Hi Scully;

  I would maybe talk to a lawyer beforehand and see what they say. I think as long as you're suing an individual elder, and not the Society, you have a much better chance of winning. I sincerely doubt that "Mother" is going to want to get involved in an individual lawsuit and I don't think they'll want to spare any lawyers when they've got bigger problems on their hands. The elder I'm sure can get lots of legal advice from Brooklyn, but they'd have to hire their own lawyer I'm sure.

  Do you know of any child abuse within your local congregation that's been covered up? If so, you could definetely use that as leverage. If you local elders come calling and threaten to DA or DF you, you could let them know in no uncertain terms that they better think about it very carefully because you'll be suing them as individuals, and you'll let your local newspaper know what's going on within the Organization. That outta put a nice little damper on the door-to-door ministry. I would also write them a formal letter saying that you have NOT disassociated yourself and that if they announce ANYTHING about you to the congregation, that you will view that as slander and will sue them.

  This is exactly the same kind of bullshit that happened with Ray Franz and others were deemed a "problem". Rather than address the issue head-on, the Borg pulled out all stops to get rid of Ray and several others through means of a witch-hunt within the Organization. The only difference now is that there are a ton more Witnesses that know what's going on, plus all the coverage on the news has been devastating to the Borg as well.

  These men running the show are truly "from [their] father, the Devil" and you gotta play dirty like them.

  You should send your elders a Christmas Card with a nice little poem to go with it:

  Ya better watch out;

  Ya better not try;

  To disfellowship me, I'm tellin' you why;

  Raymond Franz is coming to town..........

  He knows that you've been naughty;

  He knows that you're all pricks;

  He know that you've been hiding things

  that would make you look like dicks;

  Oh, ya better not pout;

  Ya better not cry;

  Ya better not visit, I'm tellin' you why;

  Raymond Franz is comin' to town........
• 

  Sara Annie

  Ok, you're going to have to forgive me here, because I don't quite understand what the issue is. I will be the first to admit that my association with the WTBTS has been peripheral. Nearly 20 years ago, my beloved Aunt began studying with the witnesses. Her involvement led to herself, her husband, and her four children eventually being baptized into the organization. As my extended family was always a close one, I attended many JW meetings and social functions with their family as a child. My own nuclear family, for a short time, allowed my Aunt and Uncle to conduct a few "bible studies" in our home. Fortunately, my parents were wise enough to see the organization for what it was: a corporate cult masquerading as the sole path to salvation. While their presence at holidays was missed, my family was, unlike so many of those that I've read about, able to maintain a relationship despite the disparity in our relgious lives. I continued the long summer visits with my cousins in their small town, the only difference was that instead of going to church on Sunday, we went with them to their various meetings and activities. I remember absorbing much of the information I heard, and vividly remember one horrible New Year's eve in the 80's that I watched the clock for two hours before midnight, absolutely petrified, because my Aunt and cousins had told me that the "present system of things" would end before that year was over...

  For most of that time, I could believe that the JWs were a harmless sect (though misguided) and took all of the information my extended family gave me about the religion at face value. My parents, however, had a harder time. It wasn't until the last few years, while I watched my Aunt die from a condition that could have been greatly alleviated, if not eliminated, by blood tranfusions and/or an organ transplant she felt her "bible-trained conscience" could not support, that I began to really wonder exactly what my family members had gotten themselves into. My mother, heartbroken at the loss of her baby sister, was treated as a stranger at her funeral service, WT pamphlets thrust at her in her grief. She was my mothers sister long before she was "their" sister, and I couldn't fathom the cold reception. It was soon after that I began to research for myself exactly what it was that JW doctrine was comprised of. I read the WT literature. I read the opposition literature. It didn't take a great leap of logic to weigh the two and determine where common sense and truth lay. It was only with age, and an informed perspective, that I began to see how easily they drew my Aunt into their clutches, and how destructive the WT organization had been in my family.

  Since my Aunt's death, two of her children have disassociated themselves from the org, while two remain heavily active (one a former bethelite and the other a regular pioneer). The two who have left the organization have faced shunning by their former "brothers and sisters". It has been quite hurtful to them. It's been wonderful, however, to have them participating in family holiday events again. In speaking to both of them, they have said that they were fully aware that their inactivity in the organization would most likely lead to their disassocation. They knew the price they would pay for leaving (one "faded" while the other sent a letter disassociating themselves), and while it was painful it was not something they fought. To do so would have been futile.

  My sincere question is what grounds would anyone have for fighting an involuntary disassocation on the grounds of inactivity in the organization's activities? The WT works like your average corporation. You enter into an agreement with a corporation to be in their employ, faithfully report your hours and do the work you've been assigned to do, accept 'promotions' to greater responsibility within the organization, and are an active member of the corporate structure. If one day, you decide that you no longer wish to show up and do what is expected of you and you continue to do nothing in the organization, and they fire you, can you say "How dare they fire me? Now they're going to tell everyone else that I'm not a good employee and that I'm no longer part of the company, I won't be able to use the company facilities, and everyone will treat me like I quit!" Essentially, isn't that what's happened?
• 

  Carmel

  Knowing that you were joining a high-control group, and probably having shunned others in the past, I'd bet a court would say you knew going in what the consequences of apostacy would be, hence, no action for redress by the civil court.

  cave guy
• 

  Navigator

  No warning is required for any lawsuit. However, as a previous poster has indicated, the warning may "do the trick". However, unless someone has blabbed about something that wasn't true and spread it around the congregation, you are going to have a difficult time with a lawsuit. As pointed out by previous posters, the courts are reluctant to become involved in religious matters. You could wind up having to pay their court costs. If, on the other hand, someone in the congregation has slanded you, you could sue them and the dfing could add substantially to the damages since it would perhaps cost you family relationships.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Somehow I doubt that an actual announcement of DA or DF in and of itself could be viewed as slander, however, ANY DETAILS given could indeed. Also, the DF MIGHT be seen as slander due to the JW position that this always involves sin. Curious if anyone has ever sued the Elders or the Society for alienation of affections from a DA or DF announcement and the resulting shunning?
• 

  Iwasyoungonce

  When I got to the boiling point I read up on harassment laws and when assult vairies from self defense. The bottom line is people are explosive. And JW's who think they are the "rightous"... times infinity. The thing is you have to make it perfectly clear that these people are not welcome in your presence. That is why there are no Mailboxes ect ect at any kingdom hall. They want to make it as hard as possible for you to state your desire for them to stay away. Anyone who says that all you need do is send a letter and they will remove you from a list is lying.

  The hard part is to break away the JW's (Besides letting family die in mind) is they are in fact going to slander you and lie about you and defame you ect ect. And they are masters at it. They are putzes. I don't give a hoot what they say about me. EVERYONE I know knows they are full of chicken shit.

  Again the key is make it clear as crystal that they are not wanted in your presence. Make them not fear the dog make them fear the owner. And I mean tell a lie about me and I will not only correct you but the whole freakin congregation on Sunday and your Aunt Martha in Dallas ya butt head I'll let her know what a liar you are too. (Worked for me)

  I did not have to go to the level of the cong they know I don't bullshit. They leave me alone. (But they did test me in the begining)
• 

  Downunderandout

  The Org would have a large file on responses to threats to sue for d'f and would provide the cong' concerned with information to handle most situations. I think defamation would be hard to prove and would depend on what the law of the land is in your country.

  I have thought though that instead of suing for defamation and a like, take it a step backwards, in that your membership in the Borg in the first place was based on deception and misrepresentation. Had the elders/org been completely open and not only offered information in relation to the Org and its teachings (all its teachings, old and new) on any subject you might want to know about, but also provided you with all history of the organisation and demonstrated without restraint the consequences of various actions, your decision to join may have been different. Had the Borg disclosed all information to potential members, including failed prophesy, double standards for different parts of the world, sloppy organisational administration etc etc again your decision to join might have been different.

  Given that once you start studying and learn that to read information about the Borg from an external source is not allowed, the onus is place even more strongly on the Borg to provide it themselves, all of it, or else how can a completely informed decision be made by the potential member. Now not only is the Borg responsible for selective information being made available to the student, so to are the elders, personally. They are individually responsible as well! They would have such information in their possession and choose not to disclose it to students. So maybe not only could the Borg be responsible for and guilty of deception and misrepresentation and even gaining membership under false pretences, so too are the elders concerned personally.

  Just a thought!
• 

  onacruse

  Scully: First and most important: (((((((Scully)))))))

  Second: I think this page has been posted before, and it's a bit old, but anyway...

  http://mypage.uniserve.ca/~renford/parlimen.htm

  A brief excerpt:

  "The Jehovah's Witnesses are singular in Canadian religious history because of the number of important court decisions they have received. They have been persistent in their efforts to be fully free in the exercise of their religion. The Jehovah's Witnesses have mastered the legal system and used it repeatedly for the affirmation of their rights and the rights of other minority groups as well."(22)
  In fact, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Canada, under its letters patent, identifies litigation as one of its corporate objects: "XI. To commence or defend legal proceedings to preserve freedom of religion, expression, assembly and press; to uphold the basic rule of law and the liberties provided in the Constitution of Canada; to protect any other interest of the corporation. Be (23)
  Ironically, this legal expertise -- developed to protect the religious interests of Jehovah's Witnesses -- is turned against ex-Witnesses who attempt to sue the Watch Tower Society. In the United States, if an ex-Witness files a lawsuit for defamation against the corporate organization, legal counsel for the Society apparently will send a long list of legal precedents to the plaintiff enumerating previously unsuccessful actions to encourage the party to discontinue the proceedings.(24)"

  Scully, if you pursue legal action, I certainly wish you every success.

  Frankly, though, you're fine just the way you are (imho).

  Craig
• 

  Farkel

  Roybatty,

  : Id be really surprised if anyone ever won a lawsuit against an elder for defamation of character over the announcement of a disfellowshipping or disassociation.

  Olin Moyle did. He sued Rutherford for exactly that. I think received about $15,000 and the award was given after Rutherford died of asshole cancer. Perfectly fitting that such an asshole would die of asshole cancer, I think.

  Farkel