Geoffrey Jackson - Royal Commission Live Hearing Now!

by LostinJapan 190 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  OrphanCrow

  Sauerkraut: Why did they let him hide behind the bible so much? I'm somewhat disappointed it turns out to be a bible discussion.

  Probably because the WTS claims that the policies of the JWs are scripturally based.

  I thought that the Commission experts handled the Biblical debates very well. Jackson's ONLY defense and source of reference was the silver sword and both Stewart and McClelland didn't shy away from pointing out Jackson's inconsistencies for his twisted Bible interpretations. I don't think that Jackson did very well in his role as a "guardian of doctrine".
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  paradisebeauty

  For the scripture in timothy that says that women can not have authority or teach, here is a more sound explanation of what Paul meant.

  http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/the-role-of-women-in-the-church

  http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/the-role-of-women-in-the-church-2
  

  And the audio of that post:

  http://www.stfpodcast.com/File/mar_apr_1996_role_of_women_pt1.mp3

  http://www.stfpodcast.com/File/may_jun_2001_role_of_women.mp3
  
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  EdenOne

  I think that this is an impressive statement made by bro Jackson. Mark these words he said at 21:05:

  "Our primary allegiance is to Jehovah God. The Governing Body realizes that if we were to give some direction that is not in harmony with God's Word, all of Jehovah's Witnesses who have the Bible would notice that, and they would see that is wrong direction."

  Seems to me that brother Jackson, without realizing it, has given grounds for any Jehovah's Witness to challenge Governing Body's doctrines and procedures, as long as it can be proven scripturally that they're not sound. Of course we all know that in the real world this is BS, because Elders and CO's enforce the Governing Body's directions as if they were God's own words and prosecute anyone who even dares to think differently. But this would be a useful quote to use on a JC by someone who is accused of apostasy, to say that the Governing Body is willing to accept a challenge to their direction, because the primary allegiance is towards Jehovah, not the Governing Body.

  Also noticed that, by this time, G. Jackson started to loosen up a bit and is now using his hands to communicate. That's more "normal".

  Eden
• 

  C0ntr013r

  Day 8 part 1:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erWV8YnTFto

  Part 2 will be up soon
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  EdenOne

  Oh my, I loved this one. At 41:10 :

  The presiding judge took Jackson through some scriptures cross-referenced in the Silver NWT: 1 Timothy 3:4 "Subjection" > Ephesians 6:4 "Discipline" > Proverbs 13:24 "Rod", and asked Jackson what "Rod" means. Jackson replied with the footnote: "discipline, punishment". Then the judge asked him if if it meant inflicting corporal punishment to children. Jackson replied 'absolutely not'. Then the judge asked him if that wasn't the original meaning of the text when it was first written. Jackson conceded that was a possibility. Then the judge asked this brilliant question:

  "Your religion, your church, is prepared to interpret the Bible having regard to contemporary social attitudes and standards, is that right?"

  Jackson reluctantly conceded: "Obviously, your honor, we need to take that into consideration".

  Then the judge was very adamant in questioning Jackson if corporal punishment of children was acceptable among the Jehovah's Witnesses. He didn't let him dance around the question and insisted twice on getting an answer. Then Jackson, after much squirming, finally had to say "No". The judge cut deeper: "But is it prohibited?". Jackson then evaded a straight answer. So, under oath, a member of the Governing Body stated that corporal punishment of children is not acceptable to Jehovah's Witnesses. We'll, see about that ....

  But to me the important question asked here is whether the Bible interpretation made by the Governing Body makes concessions to contemporary social attitudes and standards. To which Jackson conceded. This is a key argument from the Royal Commission.

  Eden
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  EdenOne

  51:50 G. Jackson - "We make changes, your honor, because those changes in the actual technicalities of the policies are not affected by the actual Bible principles [...] We will make further changes [to our policies regarding child sex abuse reporting] when we consider the recommendations of the [Royal] Commission."

  Eden
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  oppostate

  Oh, the myriad of little ones taken out of the meeting for being antsy and spanked in the foyer or one of the schools!

  That Jackson says JW's don't practice corporal punishment is a blatant lie. It is encouraged in the public talks and by the counsel of the elders to keep the household under subjection.

  There was this elder named Chesborough who gave the very same talk in our congregation over the years, three or four times. His illustrations were always the same, and memorable due to their graphic nature about giving his daughters a good spanking over the knee well into their late teens for not being "under subjection". He just about bragged and gloated how corporal punishment kept them under control through their early youth and into their "troubled" teenage years.
• 

  Splash

  Day 8 Video 2. 18:05

  Geoffrey Jackson says that a fader who celebrates Christmas (as an example) will not be subject to a JC:

  "[if the elders] meet someone celebrating Christmas, this person is not associating with other Jehovah's Witnesses, not actively trying to change other people and so on, a person such as that is not going to be handled judicially as far as I understand."

  So all faders, keep this video handy for when a bunch of nosey elders start getting judicial with you, you can get all Geoffrey Jackson on their asses.
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  Max Divergent

  Jackson has a curious accent. It's basicly Australian, but he almost sounds South African sometimes. A little bit of Schwarzenegger sometimes. I suppose the Pacific Islands, India and New York have have been mixed up in there somehow.
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  EdenOne

  1:13:05 This is important: The presiding judge asked Jackson, repeatedly, if the Jehovah's Witnesses would be willing to consider modifying the process of verification of the truthfulness of sexual abuse allegations, so that women would be involved in such a body. Once such investigation were completed, it would be then the Elders to make the decision to disfellowship or otherwise the accused. In this way, the involvement of women would make the process less traumatizing for young women to bring forth their allegations, because they wouldn't be forced to tell their story in details to a group solely composed of men; at the same time, this wouldn't require women to be made Elders. In fact, what is being suggested by the Royal Commission is an intermediate body that would HEAR and INVESTIGATE and DETERMINE if the allegations of sexual abuse are true, whereas the actual JUDICIAL DECISION would be up to the Judicial Committee, composed solely by male Elders.

  Either Jackson was genuinely surprised by the suggestion, or he was trying to work out the implications of such a suggestion, he danced around it, pretended he didn't understand the question, but finally he said to that: "The answer, your honor, is, such a situation would be worthy of us considering and doing research and checking the Scriptures, yes. The possibility of considering that is there."

  Eden