Words from my brother

by Elsewhere 38 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Iwasyoungonce

  IMO "mind-control cult" mentality is not just limited to religion. But most religions have their dogma. Do you think that it is possible to have a "Jesus" based religion without dogma? Imagine a religion where your freedom to sin is recognized as just that between you and God, and the concept of a licence to be a member of christ did not exist.

  I would like to go to a Witnesses house and offer to sell it to him. All he needs to do is keep up on the payments and take care of it himself. And, let me tell him what to do in all things. Then and only then will I allow him to stay in the house that he owns. My soul is just that mine. They don't KNOW shit. And they know that. So threats, hate, name calling, and double talk is what they do. They waste my time. Er, um, I do by thinking about them.

  It's a waste of time to reason with someone who knows all the answers. Here is a joke instead cause I like you elsewhere.

  ~~~ Mental Hospital Answering Machine ~~~
  >
  >
  > "Hello, and welcome to the mental health
  > hotline......
  >
  >
  > If you are obsessive-compulsive, press 1
  > repeatedly.
  >
  > If you are codependent, please ask someone to press
  > 2 for you.
  >
  > If you have multiple personalities, press 3, 4, 5,
  > and 6.
  >
  > If you are paranoid, we know who you are and what
  > you want. Stay on the
  > line so we can trace your call.
  >
  > If you are delusional, press 7 and your call will
  > be transferred to the
  > mother ship.
  >
  > If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a
  > small voice will
  > tell you which number to press.
  >
  > If you are a manic-depressive, it doesn't matter
  > which number you press, no
  > one will answer.
  >
  > If you are dyslexic, press 9696969696969696.
  >
  > If you have a nervous disorder, please fidget with
  > the pound key until a
  > representative comes on the line.
  >
  > If you have amnesia, press 8 and state your name,
  > address, telephone
  > number, date of birth, social security number, and
  > your mother's maiden
  > name.
  >
  > If you have post-traumatic stress disorder,
  > s-l-o-w-l-y & c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y
  > press 0 0 0.
  >
  > If you have bipolar disorder, please leave a
  > message after the beep or
  > before the beep or after the beep. Please wait for
  > the beep.
  >
  > If you have short-term memory loss, press 9. If you
  > have short-term memory
  > loss, press 9. If you have short-term memory loss,
  > press 9. If you have
  > short-term memory loss, press 9.
  >
  > If you have low self-esteem, please hang up. All
  > operators are too busy to
  > talk to you.
  >
  > If you are menopausal, hang up, turn on the fan,
  > lay down & cry. You won't
  > be crazy forever.
  >
  > If you are blonde don't press any buttons, you'll
  > just mess it up.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Elsewhere,

  Sorry bout that. The society can REALLY jerk around families. Blessings on ya and MERRY CHRISTMAS!
• 

  Farkel

  Elsewhere,

  Your brother is a typical dub: he didn't address even ONE of your actual arguments and instead attacked you personally. To make matters worse, he probably thinks that by doing that, he defended his faith and WON the argument!

  Pitiful.

  Farkel
• 

  Elsewhere

  Utopian_Raindrops

  That is pure beauty my friend.....pure beauty! I am surprised but happy an athiest wrote something so touching.

  I have the ability to put myself into the mindest of another person... I can literally flip a switch in my head and all of the sudden I am thinking like a christian.

  That's why I shy away from watching movies like Silence of the Lambs.

  =====

  I sent him a reply asking him, "How does one identify the Faithful and Discrete Slave?"

  This is my first step to asking him about 607

  Edited by - Elsewhere on 19 December 2002 16:8:12
• 

  Sangdigger

  Brothers are really weird sometimes. Mine hasnt been to a meeting in 10 years, was never baptized into the org, and is a member of the Masons, and yet he informed me 3 days ago, that he might not be able to make it for x-mas, because its a pagan holiday, and it wouldnt be right. ummm ok. Go figure. He even helped me decorate the tree last year. I just told him "whatever" and ill leave it at that. I think the ole mentality is still inside him, covered under layers of guilt or something. I think the folks are working on him.

  I've tried talking to him quite a bit, and just when i think im breaking through, he'll go right back to the JW mode of reasoning, even though the rest of the time, he's slamming the org.when it suits him.
• 

  MegaDude

  Else,

  Remaining calm is hard to do with discussing religion with a JW. You did the right thing by NOT losing your temper which the JWs would interpret as proof that you are not speaking the truth, don't have confidence in what you're saying, et cetera, ad nauseum. Your demeanor many times is more important than the words you say to the JW who is observing you.

  My dad (Navigator on this board) is fond of saying: "Love Jehovah's Witnesses. It drives 'em crazy."

  Of course, when I was fresh out of the dubs I was anything but calm. I drove my JW relatives away by being extremely caustic and aggressive in my discussions with them. I was ready....not for a calm discussion to help my JW relatives leave, but to slaughter and destroy any vestiage of an idea that the Watchtower had the truth and justify my leaving what I now regarded as a cult. I was harsh and I was relentless.

  What a stupid, ignorant, dumb, catastrophic way to handle it.

  Chalk it up to ignorance, or the fact I work with attorneys that argue for a living, and the fact I was deeply deeply upset, but regardless the effect was the same. I made absolutely no headway. I simply scared the living hell out of my JW relatives and they avoided me.

  So stay cool and stay calm. You want to attract the JW to you. Tell them you miss them (if you do) and tell your JW relatives how important they are to you. There are some people who have been rescued from cults doing just this. (read "Combatting Cult Mind Control) Put your anger at the WT and shunning aside. Put your hurt aside that you are being treated like a leper. You have a goal that surpasses your basic instinct of anger and that is to reach the heart and minds of people who are mentally imprisoned *just like you were at one time.*

  Keep us posted, Dave/Else, on your progress with your brother.
• 

  Elsewhere

  I'm beginning to wonder if he is even aware of the whole 607 and related prophecies thing.

  Let me know if I need to back off some... here is my latest email to my brother....

  I am not looking for followers... I am encouraging you to follow Christ instead of following an organization like you currently are doing. By following a man made organization you are part of a sect that was formed in the late 1800's.

  An apostate rejects god's visible organization???
  What organization is this? How do you get from "Faithful and Discrete Slave" to "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society"? This is circular reasoning.

  What am I tearing down? I am exposing lies... such as the many failed prophecies of the Watchtower. How can the Watchtower claim to be faithful or "discrete" if it is constantly making false prophecies and covering over them calling it old light? For "the light to get brighter", new light cannot extinguish old light.

  All I am doing is exposing the lies...

  "Can there be false religion? It is not a form of religious persecution for anyone to say and to show that another religion is false. It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see the difference between false religion and true religion."

  -- Watchtower , p.688

  Let's stick to the topic at hand:

  How do you get from "Faithful and Discrete Slave" to "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society"?

  Gene ******* <GeneG@******.com> wrote:

  Let me give you an analogy! On one hand we have the Apostate. On the other hand you have the Slave Class. How do you Define and pick-out the apostate? You look at their character, there ideology their choices in life. How do you define and pick-out the slave class? You look at their character, their ideology their choices in life. The two persons have a persona that you can clearly see with simple, true guides. The Apostate: They seek to make others their followers, thus causing sects. They may profess to believe in Christ but treat lightly the preaching and teaching work he assigned to his followers. They may claim to serve God but reject his representatives, his visible organization. They may "abandon" the true faith but they then "bet" their former associates, using public criticism and other methods to hinder their work. Their efforts are devoted to tearing down, not building up. These are the characteristic of the apostate, they may posses some or all. But if you get a group together, you will find all the characteristics there. The Slave Class: They look to the bible for consistent teachings of Christ, thus spreading Gods knowledge. They have a unified spirit to their decisions making. They look to Jesus as there ultimate guide in life. They seek the best means to dispensing true and accurate spiritual food for the house hold of Jehovah. They look for ways of teaching the virtuous hearted person of Jehovah's promises and Jesus sacrifice. They look at the Kingdom hope as the only way for mankind's future. They want the good news to be preached as Jesus and Jehovah said. These are the characteristic of the Slave Class, they may posses some or all. But if you get a group together, you will find all the characteristics there. These are the facts! If you can't read a book and write a report of the subject of the book, than you can never understand the book. Same thing applies to people. Look at the content of that person and form a report of what they are. You Are and Apostate They are the Slave Class

  Edited by - Elsewhere on 19 December 2002 18:4:13
• 

  Valis

  They look to the bible for consistent teachings of Christ

  Just like going from Faithful and Discrete Slave to WTBTS what he means to say is the slave class goes from the bible and teachings of Christ to the Watchtower and Awake.

  I hope this just isn't brining you more sadness my friend. BTW, it's Kirk's birthday on Sunday. Can you say drunk chicks in the hot tub? Gimme a call when you have a free moment.

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
• 

  Scully

  Elsewhere:

  Wow, your brother sure knows how to spew the venom when he's mad.....

  Jesus only talked about spreading "the Good News" once in the Bible. It's recorded by two different writers. It seems like the emphasis on the preaching and teaching work is highly exaggerated by the WTS, don't you think??

  Yet, how many times does Jesus talk about LOVE? There is an entire CHAPTER in the book of John devoted to Jesus' teachings on loving one another, and how it would be THE identifying characteristic of his true followers. Jesus taught his disciples to even "love your enemies and pray for those persecuting you", yet your brother sets the tone for every JW on the planet by calling you the worst name in the JW book: an apostate. Jesus said that the two greatest laws were to love god and to love your neighbour as yourself. There are no laws greater, they supercede even the command to preach. But how do JWs measure their "spirituality"? How do they measure their worth in the organization?? It's by the numbers they write on their field service report every month, not by how many times they helped out at a soup kitchen or donated money to a homeless shelter, or even volunteered at a hospital. Christianity is supposed to be about doing good for others - showing love to them, not shoving books and magazines in peoples' faces. Christianity is the opposite of selfishness. But what does the WTS give to others?? Where are their soup kitchens and homeless shelters, or shelters for abused women, or halfway houses for recovering addicts?? Where are their missions for helping the famine-wrecked countries of Africa? How, exactly, is the WTS's and JWs' Christian love put into practice, other than the preaching work, which benefits ONLY the WTS??

  Sorry for rambling.... JWs are really pissing me off lately.... no love there among the Pharisees... by their fruits you will know them....

  Love, Scully
• 

  NewLight2

  Ask your brother Who and where the FDS was before CT Russell and the WTBS. Ask him to find something written by the FDS between the Bible and CT Russell. Then ask him how come Jehovah let so many years go by without a visable earthly organization to guide the faithful.

  It has been my experience that they will only defer to this answer:

  "But I can show you from the BIBLE" without ever realizing that they can't answer the question.

  NewLight2