One of the biggest missunderstanding and unbiblical teaching of the JW's is that Jesus is Michael the archangel.
Here is what proffessor Anthony Buzzard has to say about this:
Jesus is not Michael the Archangel here is why
by paradisebeauty 29 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
panhandlegirl
WOW! This is something new to me. Jesus came "into existence at his birth on earth?" Never heard that before. I do remember telling on of my non-jw friends that Jesus was Michael the archangel and they thought I was crazy. Have to research this professor.
-
Vidqun
This is not an open and shut case. Consider the evidence:
At the time of greatest tribulation ever the angel-prince Michael shall contend for Daniel’s people. Everyone that is found written in the book shall be saved, and the dead shall rise again, some to everlasting life, some to everlasting shame (Dan. 12:1–3; cf. Is. 9:6, 7; 25:7, 8 Sym; cf. Matt. 24:21, 29-31). He is the prince of Jehovah’s army (Dan. 8:11; cf. Josh. 5:13-15), the prince and protector of God’s people (Dan. 10:21; 12:1). The spirit person who bears the name Michael is referred to as “one of the chief princes,” “the great prince who has charge of your [Daniel’s] people” (Dan. 10:13, 21; 12:1).
Since Michael is a prince and protector of God’s people, he could be identified with the unnamed angel that God had sent ahead of the Israelites: “Here I am sending an angel ahead of you to keep you on the road and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Watch yourself because of him and obey his voice. Do not behave rebelliously against him, for he will not pardon your transgression; because my name is within him” (Ex. 14:19; 23:20, 21; cf. 1 Cor. 10:1-4). This reminds one of the visions in Daniel’s prophecy. Kingship would be conferred on “someone like a son of man.” Michael would then stand up as king and champion of his people (cf. Dan. 7:13, 14; 10:13, 21; 12:1).
The final appearance of the name Michael in the Bible is in the book of Revelation. There he takes the lead in cleansing the heavens. Michael and his angels would oust the Devil and his angels from heaven: “And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail” (Rev. 12:7, 8). Here we see Michael in action as God’s archangel. He, along with “his angels,” defeats Satan and casts him down to the earth (Rev. 12: 9, 10, 12; cf. 19:11-16). Not only does he take the lead in upholding Jehovah’s sovereignty, but he is also a destroyer of God’s enemies.
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 identifies the archangel with Michael. Michael was the archangel, since no other archangel is mentioned in the Bible, nor does the Bible use “archangel” in the plural. “Archangel” means “Chief of the angels.” Among God’s spirit servants, only two names are associated with authority over angels: Michael and Jesus Christ (Matt. 16:27; 25:31; 2 Thes. 1:7; Rev. 19:11-21). Either their roles overlap or it is the same person.
-
brandnew
I consider the archangel as the "head of security"...in heaven.
If you want to believe all that bible malarky anyway😂
-
DATA-DOG
Sorry, but if any posters haven't figured out that GOD's "name" isn't Jehovah by now, then their interpretations of who Michael is must be guesswork at best.
In fact the whole subject is a gray area. XIANS are fond of the mantra, "If the Bible says it, I believe it!" Well the bible never says that Jesus = Michael. "Jesus" was the Logos, according to the Bible. Does that mean chief messenger?? Not that I know of.
If you get a Strong's Concordance and several bibles, and do an objective study, you will never prove that Jesus had a pre-human existence as Michael. I guess you can blame GOD for using Greek.
You can believe what you want. I'll never DF you.
DD
-
CalebInFloroda
@Vidqun
You’ve created a paradox that disproves your argument.
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 identifies the archangel with Michael.
Employing the same formula you do here, you are also saying that Jesus is Jehovah.
The text at 1 Thessalonians 4.16 not only says Jesus begins the resurrection with “the archangel’s call” but that Jesus also commands them to rise “with the sound of God’s trumpet.”
If the fact that Jesus employs “the archangel’s call” means that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, then the same logic would mean that you believe that Jesus is also the Almighty since Jesus has the control of and uses “God’s trumpet.”
This would further mean that Jehovah is also Michael the Archangel. I doubt this is what you believe.
You see when you use Scripture, your logic has to hold up under all scrutiny. The rule is simple: what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If logic applied in one instances proves something, then the same logic proves the same thing in any and every other case.
If using the “archangel’s call” makes Jesus the same as Michael the Archangel, then using “God’s trumpet” also makes Jesus the same as Jehovah. And if Jesus is Michael the Archangel, then Jehovah is also Michael the Archangel.
But that would go against Scripture.
Hebrews chapter 1 tells us that no angel of any kind, not even an archangel is the same as Jesus:
The Son became so much greater than the other messengers, such as angels, that he received a more important title than theirs.
After all, when did God ever say to any of the angels:
You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father?Or, even,
I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son?But then, when he brought his firstborn into the world, he said,
All of God’s angels must worship him.
He talks about the angels:
He’s the one who uses the spirits for his messengers
and who uses flames of fire as ministers.But he says to his Son,
God, your throne is forever
and your kingdom’s scepter is a rod of justice.
You loved righteousness and hated lawless behavior.
That is why God, your God,
has anointed you with oil instead of your companions.And he says,
You, Lord, laid the earth’s foundations in the beginning,
and the heavens are made by your hands.
They will pass away,
but you remain.
They will all wear out like old clothes.
You will fold them up like a coat.
They will be changed like a person changes clothes,
but you stay the same,
and the years of your life won’t come to an end.When has he ever said to any of the angels,
Sit at my right side
until I put your enemies under your feet like a footstool?Aren’t all the angels ministering spirits who are sent to serve those who are going to inherit salvation?
—To the Hebrews 1.4-14, italics added.
-
GodZoo
I could have told you that, would have save you so much bother...
-
leaving_quietly
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 identifies the archangel with Michael. Michael was the archangel, since no other archangel is mentioned in the Bible, nor does the Bible use “archangel” in the plural. “Archangel” means “Chief of the angels.” Among God’s spirit servants, only two names are associated with authority over angels: Michael and Jesus Christ (Matt. 16:27; 25:31; 2 Thes. 1:7; Rev. 19:11-21). Either their roles overlap or it is the same person.
1 Thess 4:16 says "an archangel's voice", not "the archangel's voice", indicating more than one exists.
Daniel 10:13 calls Michael "one of the foremost princes", again, indicating more than one exists.
But, to me, the most compelling evidence that Michael is NOT Jesus is in Daniel's description of the one who talked to him in Daniel 10:4-6:
On the 24th day of the first month, while I was on the bank of the great river, the Tiʹgris, I looked up and saw a man clothed in linen, and around his waist was a belt of gold from Uʹphaz. His body was like chrysʹo·lite, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like fiery torches, his arms and his feet looked like burnished copper, and the sound of his words was like the sound of a multitude.
This one says, in verse 13, "But then Miʹcha·el, one of the foremost princes, came to help me." So, this one who was clothed in linen, had a face like lightning, eyes like fiery torches and so on, was speaking and was not himself Michael.
Notice this description in Revelation 1:12-16:
I turned to see who was speaking with me, and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man, clothed in a garment that reached down to the feet and wearing a golden sash around his chest. Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame, and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long, two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was like the sun when it shines at its brightest.
WTBTS says this is Jesus. Yet, the description is very, very similar to the one speaking with Daniel who was NOT Michael. My view is that the one speaking with Daniel was Jesus, and there referred to Michael as someone else.
Noting, too, the use of "God's trumpet" in 1 Thess 4:16. Rev 1:1 says that Jesus "sent his angel" to give John the vision. Rev 1:10 says that angel's voice was "like that of a trumpet" whereas the voice of "the son of man" in verse 14 was as "the sound of many waters." Could it be that Michael is Jesus' angel? I can't see why not. Thus, when Jesus comes with a commanding call, an archangel's voice and God's trumpet, why would he not come with his angel, Michael? After all, Matt 24:31 says, "he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound" to gather his chosen ones.
Then, the strange use of Michael in Revelation 12:1 where the rest of the vision names Jesus all throughout. Why call him Michael here? Doesn't make a lot of sense.
I went back and forth on this issue for a long time, but I firmly believe now that Michael is NOT Jesus.
-
nicolaou
There are no angels. Jesus, if he existed at all, was an ordinary man with ordinary parents. Simple. -
paradisebeauty
The jw's talk about the controversies that had to be answered, like: can a perfect human be loyal to God.
If Jesus was an angel before coming to earth, than, that controversy has not really been answered, was it?
Plus, the prophecy from Genesis says the seed of a woman had to destroy satan. If Jesus was an angel, was He really the seed of the woman?
