About that pesky number 666...

by czarofmischief 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    As a horror fan, I've seen every antichrist movie from the Omen to the Omega Code. And that number 666 keeps popping up. So, I was thinking about that number, and how it's actually written in the Bible is a bit odd. It's not all one number, it is THREE:Six hundred, and Sixty, and six.

    My theory about the meaning of the number is as follows: It's a reference to Nebuchadnezzars golden image, which he used to unify his empire in false worship. That golden image was in dimensions of sixes, six being a babylonian holy number.

    So, in Revelation, when the number appears, it is actually a prediction of a Universal Church of some sort, membership in which will be required to do anything like buy or sell or get married. It's an odd thought, but if an Anti-Christ appears and rules over all, it follows he might try the same thing that Neuchadnezzar did to solidify his power.

    You Bible scholars out there, what do you think?

    CZAR

  • Smiles
    Smiles

    Remember that the WT teaches that most numbers in the Bible are SYMBOLIC. Except for 144,000 and maybe a few other number.

    666 is also viewed symbolicly.

    Your views on 666 are very close to the views of Jehovah's Witnesses on 666. Although they do add their own twist.

    Their book called "Revelation - Its Grand Climax At Hand!" defines 666 this way:

    Revelation Its Grand Climax At Hand!

    Page 196, 197

    Chapter 28

    "Contending With Two Ferocious Beasts"

    "Six, as a number, is associated with Jehovahs enemies. A Philistine man of the Rephaim was of "extraordinary size," and his "fingers and toes were in sixes." (1 Chronicles 20:6) King Nebuchadnezzar erected a golden image 6 cubits in breadth and 60 cubits high, to unify his political officials in one worship. When Gods servants refused to worship the image of gold, the king had them thrown into a fiery furnace. (Daniel 3:1-23) The number six falls short of seven, which stands for completeness from Gods standpoint. Therefore, a triple six represents gross imperfection.

    A name identifies a person. So how does this number identify the beast? John says that it "is a mans number," not that of a spirit person, so the name helps to confirm that the wild beast is earthly, symbolizing human government. Just as six fails to measure up to seven, so 666six to the third degreeis a fitting name for the worlds gigantic political system that fails so miserably to measure up to Gods standard of perfection. The worlds political wild beast rules supreme under the name-number 666, while big politics, big religion, and big business keep that wild beast functioning as an oppressor of mankind and a persecutor of Gods people.

    Satan uses the demonic mark of the wild beast. Anybody engaged in everyday activities such as buying and selling is pressured to do things the way the wild beast does, as, for example, in celebrating holidays. They are expected to worship the wild beast, letting it rule their lives, so as to receive its mark.

    Those who refuse to accept the mark of the wild beast have had constant problems. Starting in the 1930s, for example, they had to fight many court battles and endure violent mobbings and other persecutions. In the totalitarian countries, they were thrown into concentration camps, where many died. Since the second world war, countless young men have suffered lengthy imprisonments, some even being tortured and killed, because of their refusal to compromise their Christian neutrality. In other lands Christians are literally unable to buy or sell; some are unable to own property; others are raped, murdered, or chased from their native land. Why? Because in good conscience they refuse to buy a political party card.John 17:16.

    In some areas of the earth, religion is so ingrained in community life that anyone who stands for Bible truth is ostracized by family and former friends. It takes great faith to endure. (Matthew 10:36-38; 17:22) In a world where the majority worship material wealth and where dishonesty is rampant, the true Christian often has to trust implicitly in Jehovah that He will uphold him in pursuing an upright course. (Psalm 11:7; Hebrews 13:18) In a world awash with immorality, it takes great determination to remain clean and pure. Christians who fall sick are often pressured by doctors and nurses to break Gods law on the sanctity of blood; they even have to resist court orders that conflict with their faith. (Acts 15:28, 29; 1 Peter 4:3, 4) And in these days of rising unemployment, it is becoming increasingly difficult for a true Christian to avoid work that would mean compromising his integrity before God.Micah 4:3, 5."

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Smiles:
    Are you sure that page hasn't been updated?

  • logical
    logical

    people dont worship political systems on the scale described in Revelation 13.. People worship religions on that scale. Throughout history, which has done more of slandering God's name, religion or politics? Which has committed more evil acts in God's name, religion or politics? Does politics really care about God, either for or against? They are more interested in becoming or remaining the ruling party in their country.

    Throughout history, what happened to those who refused to believe in apostate Christianity and spoke against it? Off with their head. And also with Islam. It still happens now, although we should be grateful we live i na time where it is relatively easy to reject the beasts.

    Unless you are a JW. Then it is just as nasty now as it was a few hundred years ago for those who saw the error of catholicism and other christian sects and either died or suffered for speaking out or were too afraid. If you refuse to be a JW - you are doomed to die at armageddon, you are "killed" by shunning. You cannot speak to or deal with JW's (well you can try but they will ignore you) All this stuff about clamping down on inactives is further to the cause of enforcing this.

    God allows governments to exist to keep some sort of order. Which they do mostly although it could be a lot better. Religions exists without his permission and they create total disorder. As is totally evident throughout history.

    Now I am not saying governments are perfect, cos man dominates man to his injury - but by peddling the lie that governments fulfill Revelation 13 they can putt people off the scent, and the truth that only religion can fulfill it.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    At first what I am going to say will sound insane, but please read with an open mind. The number 666 is not an isolated occurance of numerology and therefore the larger question is why the use of symbolic numbers anywhere in the Bible? Numerology was not the invention of Hebrews priests. It's history is as long as history.As another comment said Babylon had magic numbers and it was a foremost center of such "learning". Astrology was not regarded as a merely religious exercise, it was the science of the day.

    This association of astrology to earthly realities dominated intellectual thought throughout the period in which the Bible was written. The Jews were facinated with it as evidenced by many Jewish texts. It is the foundation of the Cabala.And the Bible. I know the objections, the apparent renouncing of such things in the book of Deuteronomy for example. A closer look at these texts however reveals a different view.Deut. 4:18 does not deny but rathers confirms the Jewish belief that the stars represented actual heavenly beings. And the author implies that Yhwh's objection was to worship of them instead of him. Also is must be remembered that astrology went in and out of favor through the years and therefore some texts seem to reflect a more negative view that others.So how does this relate to 666?

    The twelve months of the year correspond to the 12 stellar Zodiacal points. These 12 points were from antiquity depicted as a cycle, on a wheel, in fact a doube wheel. The wheel within a wheel of Ezekial. The 4 cardinal points (right,down,left,up) were numerically 3,6,9,12 like on our clock. The 12 points were then described with a zodiacal sign, a gem stone,a solar month,and a phase of matter and energy. The Babylonian Zodiac (lesser) was adopted by the Jewish intellegensia. The 4 cardinal points on the Jewish/Babylonian zodiac are Aquarius/Oustour (man),Taurus/Kirub (bull),Leo/Nirgal (lion) and Scorpio/Nathga (eagle). These probably seem familiar. These are the "4 living creatures" seen in revelation chapt. 4. And the 4 faces of the creatures in Ezekial.The 12 gemstones that make up the heavenly New Jerusalem foundation(twelve apostles) are the 12 zodiacal gemstones in exact order beginning with the spring equinox: Jasper(March),Sapphire(April),Chalcedony(May),Emerald(June)Onyx(July),Carnelian(August),Chrysolite(September),Beryl(October),Topaz(November),Ruby(December),Garnet(January),Amethyst(February)

    A whole world of numerology emerged from these simple beginnings. Because of their relative position on the zodiacal cycle numbers took on symbolic meaning. The numbers 7 (days of week, The Sabath was adopted from the Babylonians who practiced it before the Jews)and 12(months of year) were outstandingly significant. Other recurring numbers such as 40 or 70 or 24,144 etc.are multiples of zodiacal points, loaded with meaning for a person "trained in the secret wisdom". When these numbers were correlated to letters of the alphebet, words began to have special symbolic meaning also. "God's secrets" were being revealed through this "science". Letters and therefore words had numeric value. The names of the gods were in fact conjured by usig this method in reverse. Gematria was the application of complex geometric formulas to decipher the secrets of the universe. The Gnostic schools while having division among themselves had an obsession with this type of "knowledge". Ok what about 666. The number is a "man's number" according to the text. And the "wisdom" is required to "calculate" the number. Using the methods just described the name 666 equals "NERON CAESAR". Neron is proper for Nero. Interestingly later varients of the text use 616, which calculates to "NERO CAESAR" which illustrates that early Christians had associated Nero with the beast. Does this identification fit the context? Yes. Nero was infamous for persecuting christians, at his assassination a legend arose that he would return from the dead and bring with him an army of Parthian horsemen to retake the empire. Parthians were the peoples to the east (kings from the east) of the Roman empire that were the only real rival power at the time. This legend called "Nero redivivus" was so prevelent that between 69 and 88CE at least 3 Nero pretenders used the legend to attempt a coup. Remmber the verse says"One of it's heads was slain" but returns to life. Further aspects of this imagery make clear a Roman ruler is being described as in 17:9-13 where it is said the 7 heads are "seven hills" on which the woman sets. Rome was called the city on 7 hills. To identify it as Babyon was an obvious referece to the vice and punishment the Bible legends attribute to an ancient enemy of God.

    While much effort has been made to identify the 7 heads as refering to 7 specific emperors,(there were 11 emperors up to the time of writing tho 3 reigned a year or less) the significance of the numbers 7 and 10 allow for literary license. Yet the 5th emperor was Nero and if the author saw the wicked christian hating Domitian as the Nero redivivus, it all fits perfectly. Well as perfectly as cryptic gnostic mumbo jumbo can to us. The references to a beast coming from the sea harken back to various ancient (at least 4000 yrs old) creation myths of a god killing a seven-headed sea monster(leviathan/Tiamat) to form the earth. The author'schoice to use this motif may alone explain difficulties with a literal 7 king identification. The 10 has been suggested to refer to the Parthian kingship to be shared with Nero.Who knows but the pont is that we are dealing with mythology and superstition not a "message from God."

    More details to make this clear: The "woman clothed with the sun, her feet on the moon with 12 stars above her head with child being saved from destruction by going to the wilderness" story is straight from the temple walls of Egypt and Sumeria (Inanna and Isis)filled with astrological significance.

    The fact that it is confusing was what has been it's allure for 1900 yrs. This was the appeal of Gnoticism and mystery cults. Their works were not meant to be understood by the unschooled as they often were condemnations of powers real at the time of writing. Couple that with the fact that 300 yrs elapsed beween the writing and the oldest copies we have giving ample time to adjust text to better fit the changing political and religious environmnt. It is also worth mentioning that Revelation was not widely adopted as cannon for hundreds of years until new interpretations of it made it attractive again. Each naive generation will "see" itself in it until a rational age finally sheds the infatuation with mysticism that has darkened human history for millenia.

    Edited by - peacefulpete on 26 December 2002 14:54:17

    Edited by - peacefulpete on 26 December 2002 15:10:5

    Edited by - peacefulpete on 26 December 2002 19:37:57

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    666 = silly jewish claptrap (codswhollop, bulls*&%, depending on the country in which you reside).

    Caucasians became infected w this superstition through christianity. Now, jewish run hollywood plays on it for it's own purposes. Lots of people love to be scared by horror shows, which is understandable. However, attempting to attatch something meaningful to this number for this time is just plain silly.

    SS

    Edited by - saintsatan on 26 December 2002 15:1:30

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Consider that in the lunar calendar, the year 666 was extremly eventful. But then no god-fearing Christian would ever allow that something significant happened with it not being directly tied to their own superior religion.

    caveman

  • Smiles
    Smiles

    Little Toe,

    I checked the WT Library and found little if anything 'updating' the WT theory on 666. But, it would not surprise me if they come out with some new and different explaination of 666. Especially after reading the post of "logical" here.

    logical,

    Good points! It makes sense. The WT will likely not adopt a logical belief as yours, because they themselves are a religion out of control. Although.... the WT may try to twist it to strictly apply to the clergy of Christendom (which they say they are not a part of) and/or Babylon the Great..... the world empire of "false" religion.

  • Yizuman
    Yizuman

    My theory about the meaning of the number is as follows: It's a reference to Nebuchadnezzars golden image, which he used to unify his empire in false worship. That golden image was in dimensions of sixes, six being a babylonian holy number.

    So, in Revelation, when the number appears, it is actually a prediction of a Universal Church of some sort, membership in which will be required to do anything like buy or sell or get married. It's an odd thought, but if an Anti-Christ appears and rules over all, it follows he might try the same thing that Neuchadnezzar did to solidify his power.

    You Bible scholars out there, what do you think?

    Right up the alley....in fact you said it way better than I could explain it.

    The mark of the beast, known as 666, is a system in which the anti-christ will establish as part of the loyalty system he will set up sometime in the middle of the Tribulation. This system will be a new government that will consist both politics and religion combine. The anti-christ is going to establish his godhead on the new system.

    This Universal Church you speak up will be a one world religion. Currently, today, the Universal Church believes that ALL religion is true and expresses TOTAL religious tolerance. Any that does not tolerate one's religion to another is an enemy of the Univeral Church. The Roman Catholic church has a membership with the Universal Church. The Pope had attended the UC meetings every year since he inherited the church's throne. Many people from all faiths have gathered together to express universal peace and tolerance to one's religion. I'm sure many of you have read about it already in the news.

    Anyway, this mark of the beast, 666, will be the most primary source of survival during the tribulation. As mentioned above, you cannot buy or sell or get married or hold a job without this mark. In fact, you will not be able to live without this mark, if you get caught during the middle of the tribulation for not wearing the mark, you will face execution.

    Aside the mark, there is a microchip being tested as we speak, this microchip is being inserted on animals as well as old folks who suffers the alhzimer(?)'s disease, also known as the wandering disease. This chip, when scanned by a handscan attached to the computer will open up information pertaining about you, such as your ID number, your medical files, work history, your work credit (as the same as monitary cash or currentcy), criminal records (if any), and all other pertainable information.

    This chip will eventually replace the currency we now use, such as cash, credit cards, debit cards, etc. Time clocks will have a handscanner that you can clock in to receive credit for the work you have done and same to clock out when you are done for the day. All credit will go to your bank once the payroll system approves them.

    From there, when you shop, grocery stores will have a hand scanner that will scan your chip that will automatically "debit" your account by looking up your "debit" account number to check to see if you have enough credit in your bank account for approval. Once approved, you can take your grocery home. Same for gas and anything else you may normally purchase on a weekly basis.

    Hospitals will also have the same system and will need your chip to enter you in as either as an in-patient or out-patient for whatever medical reasons you need. Same for a normal doctor appointment.

    Get busted while speeding? Cops already have a computer in their units. Wireless handheld scanners is already being used in variety of reasons, such as grocery stores, warehouses, etc. The cops will have one inside their unit and will scan a chipper for their driver's information and you will get a printout of your ticket as well as a permanant record of your violations. So, if you decide to become a chipper, don't speed! :p

    One good thing about the microchip out of all the bad things it will be used for, drug Caesars will have a hard time selling their dope w/o being tracked and detected. It will be very hard to hide your credit.

    Unless, you have a very reliable hacker that knows the inner workings of the system and can create conterfeit chips and be able to bypass the system to plant false information about a person w/o being caught. Although there will be a very few people that will have the technological know-how to do this. One thing for certain, there will be plenty of counterfeiters walking around getting away with things. Question is, some will want to be paid for this, so how to do that??? Hmmmmmmm. Interesting problem.

    Although this could also be useful for those who are against the new system, such as Christians for a good example. They will need a hacker to help them get around and get information on the movements and happenings on the anti-christ and his goons. They'll want to know what's going on and move people around to avoid his goons hunting them down.

    While the chip will be inserted under the skin, it will become invisible to the naked eye of everyone. But, there also has to be a need for a visible mark, so the visible mark will probably be most likely a tattoo of some sort. I will explain why there is a need for a visible mark later in this post...

    Now, take a look at some links below pertaining to the microchip, the links I will provide are BOTH secular and Christian viewpoints....

    http://www.dogsncats.asn.au/catkit/6_options_for_identification_sys.htm
    http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/cstmny.html
    http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9901/14/chipman.idg/
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/comment/2002/05/08/ncguest2.htm

    Now I am going to explain why there is a need for a visible mark....

    According to scripture, there will be another kind of mark, which is the Seal of God. This seal will be on the foreheads of every believer that have to come to believe in God and in His Son Christ Jesus. Every new believer will receive this seal immediately upon conversion.

    The vast majaority of scholars agree this seal cannot be seen by unbelievers and only believers will be able to see each other's seal. This will help believers find other believers more easily while at the same time, invade unbelievers.

    Remember, this seal only works during the tribulation. We are by no means today able to see any kind of seal from each other. Those who are already believers will be gone right before the Tribulation begins, this is called the Rapture. Over 50 million believers today could be gone at any given moment. Why the reason for the Rapture? I can explain this in another thread when I get time to do it. You may find this very interesting.

    Now, here's some scriptures that talks about this seal...

    Revelation 7:3
    "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."
    (Whole Chapter: Revelation 7 In context: Revelation 7:2-4)

    Revelation 9:4
    They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
    (Whole Chapter: Revelation 9 In context: Revelation 9:3-5)

    Revelation 14:1
    Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
    (Whole Chapter: Revelation 14 In context: Revelation 14:1-2)

    According to scripture, the seal will protect some of them for a short period of time. Most will be killed when they are discovered to be w/o the anti-christ's mark of loyalty. Those who are protected during a short period of time will occur during the latter part of the tribulation. This is another story to explain, I will post it after I finish this mark and seal topic.

    Anyway, the anti-christ will become aware of the seal of God and not even he can see them.
    So, to counter this problem and to help him find the believers out of all of the unbelievers (hence this problem will be like seperating salt and sugar from among the population). He will create his own mark, a counterfeit mark of God. Since Satan loves to counterfeit everything that is of God (i.e. counterfeit religions like JWs, Mormons, Reuninification church, etc. etc.).

    Once he establishes the mark system, it will become easier to find the believers since they will not be wearing a worldwide visible mark. His goons will be on the lookout for believers not wearing his mark and arrest them.

    They will try and scare them to take the mark by threatening their lives. If that fails, they will be executed.

    Revelation 20:4
    I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    (Whole Chapter: Revelation 20 In context: Revelation 20:3-5)

    Eventally almost, if not all believers will be killed during the last leg of the tribulation...

    Revelations 6:9 - When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

    If any survives, however few may be, will be able to see the Glorious return of Christ, who will then usher in His rulership over the earth that will last 1000 years.

    Now, about Babylon, we know of 2 past histories of that city.

    In Genesis, Babylon was built as a tower and God confused their language and spread them across the earth.

    The second was a complete city and was totally fortified from their enemies. God's people found a way in the city and destroyed it.

    Now, the city of Babylon will be resurrected again for the third time. Guess what? It's being rebult. Guess where it is? Hang on to your socks folks, the ruins of the city has been found in Iraq. Guess who is funding the restoration of the city? None other than Saddam Hussen.

    Here's some pictures of the restoration of the city...


    This is the Istar's Gate, it was found buried in sand and dirt deep in the ground. Most of the entire city was completely covered in sand and dirt. It took a long time for the entire city to be unearth. The walls had to be rebuilt as well as the buildings inside. This gate survived with very little damage to it, except for the paint which had to be repainted, some paint survived the abrasion of sand and dirt to give the rebuilders an idea what color the gate was.


    Here is the walls of the city, not entirely done yet since this was once a huge city. There's still more work to do.


    This is the palace that belongs to Saddan Hussen, one of the many palaces he owns. It's not far from the city and judging from the trees, you can see how HUGE his palace is. My guess he doesn't want the original city to dwarf his own palace next to it. Tsk, typical of Saddam.

    An earlier photo sometime during or after the gulf war. You can see some damage of the wall as well on top of it. Note how thick the wall was at that period of time.

    I'm tracking down more photos of the city. I will post them when I find more.

    The city's reconstruction took place before the gulf war. So, photos will be hard to find. I first saw this on a book about Saddam Hussen and inside it was tons of photos dating back from the beginning to before the gulf war. I saw a photo of the gate covered in dirt and sand with the damage on the paint. When I saw it, I realized the prophecy concerning the 3rd rebirth of Babylon, which is a sign that Christ's return is not far at all, next to the prophecy of the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Israel. The ground breaking ceramony had already taken place before the election of Prime Minister Sharon which caused a outbreak of fighting between Arafat's people and the people of Israel a few years ago (and still going on even to this day). Unfortunantly, scholars believe we will not be able to see it being rebuilt until after the Tribulation has begun.

    So before Christ returns, these two things needs to be fullfilled in scripture, the resurrection of Babylon and the renewal Jewish Temple.

    So we see that Babylon is already being fullfilled in scripture, next will be the Temple of God.

    Yizuman

    Edited by - Yizuman on 27 December 2002 12:34:41

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    You can lead a horse to water, can't make him drink...Can't see the forest for the trees..........

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