Do the loving elders hate you?

by JH 16 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Marcos

  Two "elders" stick out in my mind. Both older guys when I knew them and former missionaries to Latin American countries. One in a congregation in Texas in the late 60's and the other in the Tempe Az congregation in the mid-70s.

  Neither of them knew me from Adam. I was young and look very caucasian, not Latino. Both of them were SO jealous that my command of Spanish was so good. As I said, they did not know me or anything about me or my family. They both struggled with Spanish and took my command of the language as a personal affront.

  I always tried to be friendly but neither would have any of it. One even made some negative observations about me when I had a little set-to with Bethel over an incident after completing my sentence there. I know because the comment was read to me at a JC I had to attend.

  There were other "elders" who didn't like me but these two really pointed out the jealousy of many of the "shepherds".

  Marcos
• 

  mommy1

  After I was df at 17 for having sex with boyfriend. I went to meetings (had to still living at home) and after the meeting I would be stopped by one of the Elders from my judicial comitte. He would always ask me if I was still "having relations" with my boyfriend. He said don't lie,just tell me. I said no, and he said are you sure? I remember thinking to myself Why does he care I am disfellowshipped and it's none of his business. I guess he knew I was lying at the time. I turned 18 I moved into a little apartment and never went back.
• 

  minimus

  If you mean would they love you less (like Esau)? Probably. But I don't recall seeing an elder have an outright HATE for a person. Most elders either like you, don't like you, or don't care about you. If someone is a real pest or pain in the rear, they probably wouldn't feel too bad to see you go to another congregation.....but I don't think too many actually hate. But that's just my biased opinion.
• 

  TresHappy

  I always thought the elders put up w/me because my parents were so beloved by the congregation. They thought the moon of my dad (still do) and really haven't bothered me since I left the WT. I spoke my mind a lot and caused some friction. Boy I wish I had caused more...
• 

  Big Tex

  Well they liked me as long as I was a good little pioneer and was able to be "used". However once I began questioning this whole two witness to abuse rule, they dropped me like I was radioactive. There were people I had known and were close to for over 15 years who had nothing to do with me after I began questioning God's spirit directed organization.
• 

  DakotaRed

  One elder in particular, yes, I'm sure he was pleased to see me go. Maybe because I threw him out of my house with a few choice descriptive words. Below was his response to being fircibly ejected from my domicile and my response to his response; (of course, actual names and addresses have been deleted)

  SEPT. 24, 1999

  BRO. LEW W*****

  **** NE ** CT.

  MY TOWN WA.

  BRO. W*****;

  WE REQUEST THAT YOU MEET WITH US ON A JUDICIAL LEVEL TO DISCUSS ALLEGATIONS BROUGHT AGAINST YOU CONCERNING BEHAVIOR SCRIPTURALLY DESCRIBED IN PART AT COL. 3: 8 AND 1 COR. 6-10

  TIME OF MEETING SAT. OCT. 2 AT 1 P. M. AT THE KINGDOM HALL, **** NE 109 ST , MY TOWN.

  IF THIS IS INCONVENIENT, PLEASE CALL *** ****. IF NO ANSWER, PLEASE LEAVE A MESSAGE.

  signature

  SECRETARY

  H****** D. G*******

  *** NW 90th Street

  My Town

  September 25, 1999

  Lewis A. W*****

  **** NE l9th ct.

  My Town

  Mr. G*******:

  I am today in receipt of your correspondence of September 24, 1999, concerning your forming a judicial committee pertaining to some unnamed allegations against me. This letter is to be considered an answer to that correspondence and will hereinafter be considered a legal document that may be used in any future proceedings pertaining to this matter, regardless of who initiates or where such proceedings may be filed. With that in mind, may I urge you to read this letter completely and carefully.

  1. Your rapid and automatic forming of this judicial committee puzzles me, as various Watchtower Bible and Tract Society publications speak against forming such a committee in the manner that you have chosen to follow. There has apparently been no initial investigation of any alleged wrongdoing on my part, as alluded to by your scriptural cites, as no one has approached either me or any member of my family to discuss said allegations. I have not been approached personally by anyone claiming to be a witness to any such alleged wrongdoing on my part, as outlined within the Bible at Matt. 18:15 -17.

  2. On page 145 of the publication, Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry, under the subheading of "HANDLING OTHER JUDICIAL MATTERS," appear the following words: "... regardless of the exact manner in which the elders first hear reports of serious wrongdoing on the part of a baptized member of the congregation, an initial investigation will be made. If it is established that there is substance to the report and evidence is produced showing that a serious sin actually may have been committed, the congregation body of elders will assign a judicial committee of at least three brothers to handle the matter." This has not been followed, as no investigation by any unbiased elders could have been made, concerning the scriptures you cited, Col. 3:8 and 1 Cor. 6:10, within your correspondence to me. As stated above, neither I nor any member of my family have been contacted by anyone concerning any allegations into wrongdoing on my part as outlined in the scriptures cited above.

  3. In the Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry publication, on page 150, under the subheading of "DISASSOCIATION," we read the following: "... an inactive person may have failed to study God's Word regularly, or his zeal for serving Jehovah may have cooled off due to his experiencing personal problems or persecution. (1 Cor. 1 1:30; Rom. 14:1) The elders, as well as other concerned members of the congregations will continue rendering appropriate spiritual assistance to the inactive brother.

  (1 Thess. 5 14; Rom. 15:1; Heb. 12:12). In the excess of five years since I first requested assistance from the elder body of Salmon Creek Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses and even other local congregations, this has not happened. In fact, the exact opposite has been repeatedly happening, culminating in your and Mr. M****** B***** visit to my home on Saturday, September 11, 1999.

  4. Admonitions as outlined on pages 96 through 100 of the Pay Attention to Yourselves and to the Flock publication, apparently have not been followed and seem to have been completely bypassed in some cases concerning this matter.

  5. You have failed to follow proper procedures of notification to me concerning these allegations of wrongdoing on my part or who is accusing me, as outlined on page 110 of the publication, Pay Attention to Yourselves and to the Flock. Therein, it states that the preferred method of notification is by two elders clearly stating what the charges against the accused are. To date, no one has attempted to notify me either in person or by phone, but you have chosen to send me a certified letter and not state what specific charges are against me, denying me the opportunity of formulating a proper defense.

  6. Since you have chosen to not inform me of specific charges against me, I am left to surmise that these allegations are being brought by you personally, based on the outcome of our meeting in my home on September 11, l999. This fact alone should disqualify you from chairing or serving on said judicial committee. Since you wrote and signed and gave your personal phone number in the correspondence notifying me of this judicial committee, as the one to contact in case the chosen time is inconvenient, I am left believing you have chosen to chair this judicial committee against me, yourself.

  7. On friday evening, September 10, 1999, Mr. M****** B**** phoned my home requesting a meeting of you and him with me on Saturday, September 11, 1999. At that time, he was informed by my wife that I was in an agitated state and under extreme emotional duress. You were both reminded of this personally by me at the outset of the meeting in my home on September 11, 1999. In spite of this fact, you set out to deliberately provoke an angry response from me, as outlined in my letter to the Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, dated and mailed on September 11, 1999. Then, once you elicit the angry response, you apparently set out to provoke, you form a judicial committee?

  As one who is supposed to be a spiritually qualified brother and a fine shepherd of the Christian Congregation, you failed to take the lead and cool things off as they became heated. In fact, your conduct directed at me personally, exacerbated the situation. Instead of issuing me the apology you owe me for your conduct against me and my headship in my home, you form a judicial committee and apparently have chosen to chair this committee yourself, without allowing an unbiased investigation into any alleged wrongdoing. I submit that you personally failed to follow scriptural admonitions found at Rom. 2:21-23; Isa. 32:2; James 1:19, and 1 Peter 2:17.

  8. In light of the above, your forming a judicial committee in the manner you have and not following proper procedures on allowing the matter to be properly investigated by unbiased parties, has all the earmarks of your seeking personal vengeance against me, in conflict with the principle mentioned at Rom. 12:19. May I also take this opportunity to refer you to scriptural admonitions given at Luke 17:1,2, Mark 9:42; and Matt. 18:6, as well as Prov. 18:19.

  9.Watchtower articles of February 15, 1995, A LESSON ON HOW TO HANDLE PROBLEMS, October I5, 1995, WATCH OUT FOR SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, and March 15, 1996; HOW CHRISTIAN SHEPHERDS SERVE YOU , also apply and have not been followed in the excess of five years since I initially requested support and assistance from the elder body of Salmon Creek Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  10. As explained to both you and Mr. B**** in my home on Saturday, September 11, 1999, I will no longer tolerate any outside interference whatsoever in the managing of my home, but my wife and I will continue managing our home according to scriptural admonitions found within the Bible arid various publications printed by and distributed by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. If outside interference continues from individuals from within the Salmon Creek Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, I may be forced to seek relief in a court of law.

  11. Given the above items 1 through 10, your forming a judicial committee automatically appears to be in violation of both scriptures and various publications of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Therefore, I will not be present at this judicial hearing you have called for at 1 PM, Saturday, October 2, 1999. If you or the Presiding Overseer of Salmon Creek Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses wish to handle this matter properly and allow an unbiased investigation into these allegations, by elders without a personal ax to grind, I will gladly meet with these elders at a time convenient to them in my home. I will attend no other meetings.

  Lewis A. W*****

  cc. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society

  Attn: Governing Body

  25 Columbia Heights

  Brooklyn, New York 11201-2483

  Salmon Creek Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses

  Attn: F**** H********, Presiding Overseer

  **** NE 109th Street

  My Town

  .

  Since mailing the above, the only contact I have had with any of them was about a year later asking for me to supply my signature on my DA latter which I accidentally forgot to sign. Of course, they didn't get it and actually stomped out of my house, like small children. I have since divorced the JW wife and make no efforts at all to be around any JWs. They don't even stop by my house when working the territory, leading me to believe I am marked as a "do not call" on the territory card.

  Yes, life can be sweet

  Lew W
• 

  moreisbetter

  I never felt hatred. Contempt; yes, hatred, no. My 2nd generation JW parents were chronically weak in the spiritual sense. I felt like I was always guilty by their association. All of my parents close friends were servants in some capacity or married to one. One of those close friends was a circuit overseer. He was a brother that had seriously dated my mother for some time just prior to my father.   Upon meeting my grown sister for the first time, he said to her "Hi, I'm ***. I should be your father". Thats not right!

  <P>Anyway, growing up, I felt some love by these people, even though they were always telling me I should be responsible & go out in field service on my own.   I should tell my parents they should go too. I was a little kid! You didn't tell my parents NOTHIN! or at best, get the cold shoulder for weeks; at worst, got the S***t beat out of you for something.

  But when I started to date then a few months later married one of their golden "protgs" at 16,I suddenly felt like I was trash. At 23, my new hubby was a MS, pioneer, veteran & regular at public talks, both at our hall & a visiting speaker. He was also a regular participant at assemblies & conventions. 

  I got the prize, but he got the trash. The JW trash that is. Every hardship he encountered after that was my fault. He was disfellowshipped and it was my fault. Years before he even had a very brief, non-fornicating "marital indiscretion" right after our 3rd child was born right before his elder appointment, but that was my fault too. We had 4 children & chose to move to a larger house in another congregation in a better neighborhood & that was my fault.   When he was disfellowshipped rather than appointed an elder in that new congregation, it was my fault (it was based on lies from an elder business partner). During the time he was DF and struggling to make a living for his family, I struggled to get his 4 kids to all the meetings.   2 of which were in their early teens and needed the spiritual assistance of the elders and congregation in order that their spiritual growth continued in spite of the tragedy that had occurred. Did they get It? Well, sort of Bible/book studies, yes. Spiritual comfort; encouragement, NO!!! They were offered and accepted bible studies from an elder's children slightly older than they were, who are now DF'd themselves.

  Did I feel contempt by the elders? Yes, I don't know what else to call it. Just one example of contempt I felt from loving friends": Our book study overseer at that time was on their father's JC; he refused to give us a KM because none of us was a regular publisher. That was the 1st time in my life I never had KM; My family & I were spiritually needing help & accepting of that help but was denied a lousy KM!(it was highly recommended that I borrow and make   copy even though the local mail boxes ect refused to allow JWs to copy JW literature). The elders did not call me to see how things were. AND what about all the MS's, elders, and other overseers and other friends of my ex's in 1/2 dozen other congregations around the city where my ex had friends; acquaintances? Did they call to see how we were? me? our children? NO! NADA! NEVER! After he was reinstated? Only 2 close ones friends came by to see him; express their "forgiveness" of his sin. Even today, 10 years after his reinstatement, I'm still blamed for his complete, current

  <P>When I committed adultery less than 2 yrs later? almost 90% came out of the woodwork to express their condolences to him (even though he was inactive & barely communicated with them). HIs best friend, an elder (who was the 1st to turn his back on him before the DF) said "forget her; divorce her; don't look back" That person was supposed to be my friend too. But I knew then that I had none. AND would never have those that I THOUGHT I had before. Even though the Watchtowers at the time preached taking a strayed mate back even in the face of adultery if love and acceptance existed, which in our case did.

  "Do the loving elders hate you?" In my case, yes, I think they do because I believe hatred equals contempt. Do I feel like they are happy, relieved or don't care that I'm gone? OH HELL, YES TO ALL!! The elders, either in my "home" congregation or the ones my family was most acquainted with, DID NOT check on me during bad times not to mention good ones. They did not come by (or even tried to find out where in the hell "by was, as in where do I live") to find out if i had repented or stopped sleeping with someone other than my ex. No one has asked about me or called on me or tried to find out WHERE THE HELL I AM! Why?   I don't know, my only conclusion is that they saw that i was trash that brought down their beloved son, so therefore they cared very little. I didn't do anything to any of them.   I guess they didn't need a DA or DF quota to make, so they left me alone. It was best for their reputation & less publicity that they just let me be. Compared to many stories on this board, I'm fortunate. I haven't been subjected to the degradation that many have survived. ; 

  The phrase "Loving elders"? Is that the ultimate JW oxymoron. I'm sorry if I kind of got off on a rant. The subject gets to me & my current coping strategy takes over. ;

  (edited to say I tried to clean this post up & make it readable but failed - my appoligies)

  Edited by - moreisbetter on 27 December 2002 4:16:51