Tolerance

by Xena 38 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  DannyBear

  donkey,

  Sometimes your brillant. As is true with most of the poster's here.

  I think your last post sums up the need, no I will assert, the absolute necessity for anyone who espouses or proclaims a belief, to be willing if not eager, to hear alternative idea's.

  Often the most closely held, almost gaurded thought processes, come from the environment we are raised in. Not discounting upbringing, but if that upbringing is tainted by bias, not to mention bigotry......it is a receipe for tunnel vision. Having been raised a jw, with such a narrow perspective, I know of what I speak. I was a walking, talking, zombie of biased views.

  Oh yes it helped other zombies with the same mentality, choose to promote me at a very early age. Even attaining the status of a zombie 'elder' at the tender age of 23. At 32 yrs of age, some of the scales fell off, and I broke the chains, violating my own belief system. Thats what it took for me, to get released from the bondage. In Feb I turn 55........still working on getting rid of the last vestiages of tunnel vision!

  Danny

  edited to add: HAPPY NEW YEAR to you Andee, Xena, donkey, and all! Damn I hope this new one is gonna be better!

  Edited by - DannyBear on 31 December 2002 18:38:4
• 

  Big Tex

  I can understand discussion and I can understand being upset when others try to judge us based on their own beliefs, but someone who just states they think something different from us or has ideas that conflict with us or may present something to us that is beyond the realm of our conprehension...to belittle that person or mock them....haven't we moved beyond that?

  I've thought and said this many times. I've seen interesting threads suddenly veer off into a complete other direction and disparate people join in a feeding frenzy of mean spirited attacks. I've never truly understood why. I don't have any problem with someone disagreeeing with me. What I don't understand is how vicious and personal some people get. I've only been on discussion boards for a few months, but it seems to me so many people carry old grudges from previous battles. Why? I made it a point not to read several threads in the whole Bill Bowen/Ray Franz war. After a while it was obvious reason and discussion were left out to be replaced by anger and vitriolic, snide attacks.

  If that's all a discussion board is, then leave me out. I have no interest in that sort of thing. To me it is not only counterproductive, but it is boring. It's the same old insult thrown around and repackaged. You're right Xena, haven't we moved beyond that?
• 

  DannyBear

  Big Tex,

  *** I made it a point not to read several threads in the whole Bill Bowen/Ray Franz war. After a while it was obvious reason and discussion were left out to be replaced by anger and vitriolic, snide attacks. ***

  So what you are saying is that those particular threads violated your comfort zone. That is understandable, especially knowing a little about your past experiences with abuse.

  But what you consider to have been warfare, vitriolic, really served to educate all parties involved. It matter's little who can be counted as winner's or loser's in that type of discussion. It served a very good purpose in my mind. If nothing more than, putting absolute trust, unreseved dedication, to any cause or agenda, may well be very harmful to participants.

  It matter's little the subject, political, social or religious, when anyone or anything is put up on a pedestal, as a guru or hero, that can do or say anything, damn the consequences...........well you saw what happened.

  A lesson that served a positive purpose......even if you do not percieve the positive results at this moment in time.

  Danny
• 

  Solace

  Xena,

  Just wanted to let you know that I agree.

  The difference between attacking the individual and arguing is major.

  Example,

  Attacking - "You are wrong" or "You are an idiot"

  Arguing - "I dont agree with you because,"
• 

  plmkrzy

  anyone who thought differently was going to be judged unworthy and die.

  Yep I remember. At least now when someone decides we are (or are thought process is) unwhorthy, we know we won't die! It's hard to imagine now but I can remember a time when I believed I was going to die because I didn't agree with the WT. Try figuring that one out. LOL

  I agree xena, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense and it seems pretty strange that not everyone can see that. "Simplicity" must be really difficult sometimes.
• 

  Xena

  Donkey I really enjoyed your post...it made me think of this quote I just read

  "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong." Bertrand Russell

  Something else I learned on leaving the JW's....never become to attached to your beliefs!

  BG - lol you nitpicker you And a Happy New Year to you too!

  Dannybear, isn't it interesting how people who purport to have the "truth" are so afraid to examine it closely? One would think they would welcome having their beliefs tested and proved to be true.

  BigTex, I am with you...old grudges are just to much time and trouble for me!

  Heaven, Thank you. Good examples of how to disagree without being disagreeable

  Plm, I think sometimes the simpliest things in life are the hardest to grasp because they are so simple...weird huh?

  Hope everyone had a Happy New Year!!!

  Edited by - Xena on 1 January 2003 13:37:40
• 

  donkey

  Thaks Xena....

  I think the following quote from Bertand Russell is great:.

  Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind.... This has been my life. I have found it worth living, and would gladly live it again if the chance were offered me.
• 

  breeze

  Zena: I wasn't defending any particular position just responding to your tolerance post?

  Breeze, isn't it funny how intolerant we can be of others beliefs that can't be explained but tolerant of our own?

  I have a problem with defending ones belief to the extreme.......burning oneself, etc....I think it is tolerance that might change the world of religion but much like race perjudice, the real changes will never come about?

  Edited by - breeze on 1 January 2003 14:0:55
• 

  Introspection

  Well, it's all a bit silly to me because beliefs are only beliefs. It seems that when such attacks happen is when atleast one but often both parties identify with their beliefs, when the beliefs are only things they have rather than who or what they are. My attitude is: So you believe this, so what? Since I don't believe you are a belief or a set of beliefs, I'm not going to insult you or myself by the same mindset.