For plmkrzy

by AlanF 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Farkel, your question reminded me how thoroughly a head-up-his-ass JW I was for 30 years, because I was convinced, absolutely sure, that all the symbolic interpretations the WTS came up with were so deep, so unique, so hidden that, well, it just proved they were truly being used by God. roflmfao. Then, when I started college in the early 90s, I discovered (via those pesky elective courses, hehe), much to my shock and dismay, that this methodology not only pre-dated the WTS, and the Adventists, but actually goes at least as far back as Philo of Alexandria (~30 BC to ~45 AD). Williston Walker of Yale University says:

    ...by allegorical interpretation Philo finds the Old Testament in harmony with the best in Platonism and Stoicism...This allegorical method of Biblical explanation was greatly to influence later Christian study of the Scriptures. (A History of the Christian Church, p. 17)

    That remarkable character Origen (~185 to ~245 AD) took hold of Philo's techniques and the Alexandrian school with a vengeance (bold added):

    All normal Scripture, he held, has a threefold meaning...This allegorical system enabled Origen to read practically what he wished into the Scriptures...[his] theological structure is the greatest intellectual achievement of the ante-Nicene Church. It influenced profoundly all after-thinking in the Orient. (ibid, pp. 75-7)

    Interpreting the Word of God (Moody Bible Institute) adds (p. 178)(bold added):

    If one reflects upon the history of the Church, he soon discovers how an entire generation, and in some cases several generations, have been influenced by a single commentator upon the Bible. Take, for instance, the allegorical method of interpretation used by the Alexandrian school of theology which controlled the way the Bible was read and studied for over a thousand years. The real meaning of the biblical text was often lost because the interpreter was free to read into the text any meaning his speculative genius desired.

    The bolded portions above remind us of anyone we know?

    Anyway, the technique has been widely implemented since the beginning of Christianity, but as for specific modern religions, I don't know. The literature I've read talks at length, for example, about the Revelation and various approaches to it's interpretation (preterist, historicist, futurist, idealist). Only the "idealist" (viewing Revelation simply as a story about the victory of good over evil) would be freed from having to conjure up symbolic meanings. I therefore suspect that, even if not overtly, most other churches harbor similar typological speculations. Just a guess, though.

    Craig

    PS: If someone here, perhaps barry, picks up on this thread, I would really like to know if other modern Christian religions use the same allegorical techniques.

    Edited by - onacruse on 9 January 2003 22:29:1

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    Interesting stuff, it makes sense that something with such a strong-hold on humans would have been around for quite a long time, in some form.

    At least we know the REAL reason the WTS apposed seeking a college education.

    My mY, if JWs around the world stumbled across those elective courses it would blow the whole thing. We might all be ex-adventists. Or at least ex-something.

    plum

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Alan,

    Perhaps you could enlighten me on the specifics of beliefs of Baha'is of which you refer. I know of only one reference to which you might be refering and that was the execution event of the Bab. Any hagiograpical references of which you refer are outside my information set and I have been a member for 28 years now. Care to share?

    carmel

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy
    Alan,

    Perhaps you could enlighten me

    uh...not before I collect the interest Alan owes me.

    So Alan, how do you want to pay up?

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Hi Plmkrzy,

    : So Alan, how do you want to pay up?

    I don't know. You might try calling me on the phone sometime: 970-206-1555 and we can work something out. I take PayPal. Try this weekend if possible; I'll be out most of this evening.

    Hi Carmel,

    : Perhaps you could enlighten me on the specifics of beliefs of Baha'is of which you refer. I know of only one reference to which you might be refering and that was the execution event of the Bab. Any hagiograpical references of which you refer are outside my information set and I have been a member for 28 years now. Care to share?

    Well, a friend of mine converted to the B'Hai's a few years ago. He quickly attempted to convert me, and most of what I know comes from that attempt, so it's possible I have some things scrambled. I have very strong impressions from our long discussions, though. He's in with a heavy duty B'Hai mentor of sorts, and so I don't know how much of what he told me is standard B'Hai fare and what is "inside stuff". His dad and I have had some interesting conversations, him being a heavy duty Christian and me not.

    AlanF

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    well Alan,

    I don't know what you mean by "inside stuff'". I've served on both elected and appointed positions at the local and national level as well as worked four years at the Baha'i World Centre in Haifa working directly with and for the internationally elected body. Never was exposed to any "inside stuff' that was any different than that available to rank and file members.

    carmel

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    tap..tap..tap..static(^%&%) excuse me, I'll just be a moment.

    I'm not even on the most active list and I hit my limit late last night, or was it wee hours of the am. What ever it was, I posted about 7 times since yesterday and I get a message saying I posted 20 times. I think I was robbed .Anyway,

    Alan, you said:

    I don't know. You might try calling me on the phone sometime: 970-206-1555 and we can work something out. I take PayPal. Try this weekend if possible; I'll be out most of this evening.

    This week-end eh? Well I think I might be able to squee.....wait a min. What do you mean: "I take PayPal"? Whose interest is this anyway?

    plum

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Hi Carmel,

    By "inside stuff" I mean the same thing as when I say that JWs don't learn certain "inside stuff" until they've already committed themselves via baptism. Since I don't know whether what my friend told me is standard fare or could be this "inside stuff", I have no way of knowing which is which, or even if there is such. I simply know that my one encounter with B'Hai beliefs gave me the willies, and I've not looked into it since.

    AlanF

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Hi Plmkrzy,

    I'm just goofing with you, as if you couldn't tell. Do call some time.

    AlanF

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