thanks yeru!
just to get this right...if a child reports a pedophile to an elder and the elder doesn't contact the police than thats ok by this law?
Ky. Bill to Repeal Clergy "Silent Right"
by Kenneson 82 Replies latest jw friends
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Trauma_Hound
My credentials in this discussion is my own molestation. You've made your agenda perfectly clear on this board, you hate all organized religion. Just because you're not part of any type of organization doesn't mean you don't have an agenda.
Really, what makes you think I don't have the same credentials? I don't hate all organised religion. The only people I hate, are pedophiles. I think I made my agenda perfectly clear, considering all the damn work I did for silentlambs. Your a real idiot, if you haven't seen that.
Edited to add:
Yeru, since it's abviouse that religions can't handle the responsibility of protecting children from pedophiles, why should they be allowed to keep confessions private? At least health care professionals are mandated to report child abuse.
Edited by - Trauma_Hound on 15 January 2003 14:32:19
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ESTEE
Interestingly, there are all kinds of existing laws that protect the victims of rape.
The problem is complicated when other self-governing entities (such as religion) decide to deal with the victims in a way that by-pass these existing laws, thus further aggravating the suffering of the victims. Unfortunately, these self-governing entities have their own unhealthy agendas. Further to that, governments have a policy of not getting involved with these self-governing entities. I believe the problem lies with the resultant inaction of the governments.
Some responsibility lies with the self-governing entities for their part in the inaction because of their own unhealthy agendas.
Some responsibility lies with the governments whose policy is to not get involved with self-governing entities.
Esther
Edited by - ESTEE on 15 January 2003 15:8:55
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Yerusalyim
Realist,
Unfortunately in many states clergy who learn of child molestation from the victim or family are under no obligation to report it. This needs to be addressed before we go trying to force the clergy to reveal what was given in confidence in a sacramental confession.
Trauma,
I never once said you didn't have credentials to take part in this discussion, but mine are equal to yours. I too hate pedophiles and the suffering they cause, but I'm not ready to invade the sanctity of the confessional. Every priest I've talked to on the subject has stated they would counsel the pedophile to both therapy AND turning themselves in to the law. Absolution would be withheld until then. Obviously, some priests have not done this, and it's a shame. My biggest concern in all this is that if we have laws mandating that pedophilia learned through the confessional must be reported, then it won't be long before any and all crimes and deviations must be reported.
I don't doubt that you want to help protect kids, if I sounded before like I doubted that then I apologize, by the same token I do see an undercurrent in a lo of what you write that leads me to think you'd have no problem with the demise of all organized religion.
Lets first mandate that clergy report when victims/family members report molestation. Lets see if that helps protect kids.
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waiting
Yeru,
You've made some interesting points, thanks.
My biggest concern in all this is that if we have laws mandating that pedophilia learned through the confessional must be reported, then it won't be long before any and all crimes and deviations must be reported. - yeru
Isn't that the same argument that men gave against giving women The Vote in the USA? "Why, then the floodgates would be open so that - sooner or later - women would want equal rights to men."
Isn't that also the same argument that men gave against giving Negroes The Vote in the USA? "Why, then, the floodgates would be open so that - sooner or later - Negroes would want equal rights to white men."
Why, then, the floodgates would be open so that - sooner or later - the clergy would have to be equal to all other men."
Lets first mandate that clergy report when victims/family members report molestation -yeru
Actually, I think the clergyman should report it - independently of what the victim/family does. I believe that's the State Law in SC - at least, that's what a Methodist Minister and an attorney told me recently. And as backwards as SC is sometimes..........kudos for them for making this a Law.
A child molester is reported for the safety of children. Period. -
waiting
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Yerusalyim
Waiting,
No dear, it's not the same arguement. Really it's not. Am I to take it from the post you made that you DO advocate that any and all crimes and deviations a clergyman learns through confession should be reported?
I'll even go this far, if it's NOT in a sacramental confession that the perp admits his guilt the priest should be required to notify authorities. I'm not quite ready yet to concede that the sacramental confession be violated. If I have to worry whether or not what I tell a priest will be revealed I won't go to confession at all. In the military adultery is against regulation and can get a soldier jail time. If a soldier confesses adultery to a military chaplain should that chaplain have to notify officials? It's the same thing. Chip away at it a little, and the whole thing washes away.
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Trauma_Hound
Why does the chaplin have to be a member of the military, kind of gets rid of the seperation of church and state. Adultery and Child molestation are two separate things, one had long lasting affects, one doesn't. Child molestation is right up there with murder, in my book. If a non-priest person knows about murder, and doesn't report it, they can be held as an accesorie to the murder. Why is a priest above everyone else in society?
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UnDisfellowshipped
Here's a question for Yerusalyim:
What if a Religion teaches that their members must kill certain people, or that they must blow up certain buildings, should that Religious Commandment be protected by the First Amendment?
What about the Muslim Extremists who command their followers to perpetrate Terrorist Acts, should that Religious Commandment be protected by the First Amendment?
How about the following scenario:
A Catholic confesses to a Catholic Priest that he has set up a Bomb to explode some building, and that it will kill several people, and it is going to explode in a week.
Are you saying that the First Amendment should protect that Priest, and that the Priest should not be required to notify the Authorities that a Bomb is going to explode within a week and kill several people?
Also, here is what I have learned, while doing a little research (I'm not 100% sure that this info is completely accurate):
The following States deny the Clergy-Penitent Privilege in cases of suspected Child Abuse:
New Hampshire, North Carolina, Rhode Island, Texas, West Virginia.
The following States require ALL PEOPLE to Report suspected Child Abuse with no exceptions listed:
Mississippi, Nebraska, Montana, Oklahoma, Tennessee.
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UnDisfellowshipped
What if a Religion teaches that their members must molest children, should that Religious Commandment be protected by the First Amendment?
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avishai
good point. Maybe NAMBLA should apply for religious status. I have to say that attorney client privelege is a good thing that actually protects people. Ecclesiastical privelege is a joke, not worth the harm done in it's name, & attorny/client privelege is BARELY worth the harm done in it's name.What if a Religion teaches that their members must molest children, should that Religious Commandment be protected by the First Amendment?