"Bible Students" and 1919

artful

A have a couple of questions pertaining to the WTBTS and "Bible Students" from 1914-1919 and onward that I would appreciate receiving your feedback on:

1. Does anyone know how many "Bible Students" (Jehovah's Witnesses) there were in 1919? I know that WTBTS keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but I have no access to material that covers that time period.

I ask this because my wife (still a JW but finally starting to think for herself - after a lot of time and patient conversations with me!!) has been reading a lot about this date in her current study from the Isaiah book. The parallel is constantly made between Israel's release from Babylon's captivity and the release of the 8 WTBTS directors from prison in the USA. She has a problem with this parallel (and so do I of course) first of all because Israel's captivity was 70yrs, and the 8 men from Brooklyn were only in "captivity" for 9 months! And secondly, because of the references to the "small band" of Christians that supposedly then went "full ahead" with the preaching work from 1919 on!!!

Which leads to the second question...

2. Does anyone have any idea when the WTBTS led "Bible Students" became a functioning "religion" and not just a publishing company. I know they officially became "Jehovah's Witnesses" circa 1935 but that's not what I'm after. My sense from reading some of Russell's earlier writings is that they originally did not feel the need to establish man-made "buildings" of worship or formal congregations, but later this obviously changed. This is important to my wife (and myself) because the impression in the WTS publications is that from 1919 onward the "organization" was full steam ahead and basically functioning in the same manner as today.

Any comments or information about the membership numbers and formal worship during this time period (1914-1930) would be appreciated.

Thanks for your assistance.
Artful

DannyBear

Art,

Since Russell died in 1916 the period your question relates to, was a time of turmoil for the then known Bible Students.

Rutherford had pulled off a big corporate coup, by illegally dismissing several of the director's of wtbs Russell had himself appointed and commissioned to remain such after his death. Rutherford authoring several publications that the US government and other's dained as seditious, thus landing him and other's in jail.

This imprisonment offered the judge a martyer's pr opportunity. He milked it, to say the least. This one event helped to solidify the movement and drew sympathy from those who were quite upset about his (FR's) take over. Many left to start Bible Student groups, but the base of r&f now were primed for Rutherford's way.

Rutherford immediately changed the elected 'elder' arrangement in 'the companies' (congregations) to 'servants' appointed directly by the wtbs. In other words any vestiage of personal choice, exercise of individual conscience in matter's of bible interpretation, running of the individual congregations, was in one fell swoop taken away. The Judge now called all the shots.

While he sipped fine whiskey and beer, and wore his expensive silk shirts, the brother's and sister's were knocking on door's selling his Finished Mystery and other babbeling's.

When Russell died in 1916 the total number of Bible Students was in the mere 10's of thousands. By the 1920's it was in the 100's of thousands, well you know the rest.

James Penton's book Apocalype Delayed does a very good job describing these early days. Iam only about 1/3 of the way through it, but if you have not read it.....it is worth the price.

Danny

refiners fire

This is an interesting post.

If only I knew the answers to the questions! The same questions have concerned me.

I can give you ONE tidbit of information. According to the "JW in the DP" organizational history, there were 44,000 publishers in 1928.

Interestingly, the figures COMMENCE at 1928. Records prior to then are not mentioned. Knowing the cult as I do, there is little doubt there is a reason the figures prior to 1928 are not quoted.

I imagine they demonstrate DECREASE in membership.That is why they are not listed. The debunking of Russell and dumping of Russells teachings occured from 1925 onward and , from what I have read, was complete by 1928. So I expect the years between 1925 and 1928 demonstrated dramatic decrease in membership.(All this IMO, of course)

Edited by - refiners fire on 11 January 2003 15:54:9

blondie

Proclaimers Book page 425 22 Part 2-Witnesses to the Most Distant Part of the Earth

The actual number who were then sharing in that work, however, was small. Some who had fearfully held back during 1918 became active again, and a few more joined their ranks. But the records that are available show that in 1919 there were only some 5,700 who were actively witnessing, in 43 lands.

DannyBear

When judging the number's of 'Bible Students' in the period 1914 to early 20's it is interesting that not all member's of the congregation were required to report time spent in the preaching work.

Also by the time Russell died in 1916 over 10 million had seen his Photo Drama of Creation around the world. Somehow without 6 million door to door publisher's, Russell had managed to distribute/sell over 4,600,000 copies of his Divine Plan of the Ages by 1916 as well!!!

So there really is no way of calculating the exact number of those who were 'witnessing' during this period. It was not until later that the judge instituted 'the publisher's record card'..

Danny

DannyBear

Refiner's,

***dumping of Russells teachings occured from 1925 onward and , from what I have read, was complete by 1928***

On the contrary, much if not all of the current beliefs of modern jw's, stem directly back to Russell. Very little of his adventist views have been modified. He saw Christ's kingdom as heavenly, he justified the passing of 1874, 1878, even 1914 as proof of this doctrine.

Almost the entire dogma plus or minus a few dates, can be traced right back to Russell.

Danny

hooberus

While we are on the subject of 1919. A key Watchtower doctrine is that Jesus found and appointed a Faithful and Discreet Slave Class in the year 1919.

A simple way to disprove the 1914, 1919 FDS doctrine is to simply show the 1919 Topical Index to the Watchtower Reprints. Under the "That" heading

"That Servant: An Individual, not a class"

Since the index summarizes the WT teachings up to July 1919 there was no FDS class for Jesus to appoint! I have a copy of the old index page which is probably not available in most Kingdom Hall libraries if you like I could mail it to you. I have never been a JW so I am not apostate.

The standard reply to such remarks is that there has been numerous helpings of New Light since 1919! If your points are not the latest WBTS thinking they are not considered as valid. This is how I would respond to the "new light" argument.

"Yes, Mr. Witness I know that the FDS teaching was changed in February 1927 to the current one that the FDS is a "class." However this is not the issue that concerns me. The main thing that concerns me is that the Watchtower claims that there was a slave class in the year 1919 when there wasn't one. In oder for Watchtower history to be correct Jesus had to appoint a slave class in the year 1919. The historical facts show that one did not exist, hense the Watchtower has lied about their history."

Here is another way to respond to the "new light" argument.

"Mr. Witness the Watchtower claims that the new light is progressive, right? . In fact the Watchtower first taught that the FDS was a "class", then the Watchtower claimed to have new understanding or new light that the FDS was an "individual not a class." So the idea that the FDS is"not a class" was the "new light". Then later the Watchtower returned to the "old light" and once again taught that the FDS was a "class."

Summary of Watchtower FDS teaching

1879 to 1896 "A class"
1896 to 1927 "An individual, not a class"
1927 to pres "A class"

Edited by - hooberus on 11 January 2003 16:57:23

Edited by - hooberus on 11 January 2003 17:6:10

Edited by - hooberus on 11 January 2003 17:8:8

Edited by - hooberus on 11 January 2003 17:9:26

refiners fire

Dan.

Well reading the WTs between 1925 and 1928 myself, I certainly got the impression that there was very much a dumping of Russellism in terms of time calculation / Biblical Chronology. Russell expounded Jubilee time cycles. Parallel Dispensations. Days of Daniel and Times of the Gentiles. There may be others that dont spring to mind. Oh yeah, Pyramid measurements. Id say that the discarding of 4 out of 5 constitutes a "dumping". Just my opinion.

DannyBear

Refiner's,

Didn't mean to step on your toes. It just has become even clearer to me how there really is little difference in comparing Russell's writing's to those say of Freddie Franz. The nuances, particular's change, times and dates alway's in a state of flux, yet no matter what it all ends up bible babble, Russell was a master at it, so was Freddie.

Does it really matter what the specifics of doctrine are? Or is it the bold assertion's these men made and continue to make that makes this religion smell so bad.

Reading any of thier dogma is a total waste of time. When does the reader make the conscience decision to accept what they read as 'truth'..........only as long as the wtbs claims it, promotes it, and enforces it.

They are truly delusional.

Danny

refiners fire

Dan.

I guess Ive got a tendancy to always focus on the time setting aspect. Chronological calculations. etc. Doubtless you werent talking about these, you were talking about the basic tenets like the redeeming value of Christs sacrifice, etc.

"Bible Students" and 1919

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