Death Penalty

by Yerusalyim 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    I can't believe no one has commented on this yet. Illinois Governor George Ryan cleared out Death ROW.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,75170,00.html

    So, what do you all think, good or bad. What is the JW position on the DP?

    CHICAGO Calling the death penalty process "arbitrary and capricious, and therefore immoral," Gov. George Ryan cleared Illinois' death row Saturday, commuting 167 condemned inmates' sentences in the broadest attack on the death penalty in decades.

    Ryan's decision, which came three years after he temporarily halted state executions to examine the system's fairness, was quickly denounced by prosecutors, the incoming governor and relatives of some murder victims.

    "Every one of the victims, he has killed them all over again," said Cathy Drobney. Her daughter Bridget was killed in 1985 by Robert Turner, whose sentence was commuted.

    It was a sharp contrast from the jubilant reaction at Northwestern University, where journalism students investigating Illinois death row cases have helped exonerate some inmates. Ryan's speech was attended by a who's who of anti-death penalty activists.

    "Gov. Ryan has taught us what leading truly looks like," said Lawrence C. Marshall, director of the Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern University. "This is greatness, my friends."

    The mass commutation was the sharpest blow to capital punishment since the U.S. Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional in 1972, forcing states to redraw their laws to make them more equitable.

    It came two days before the Republican leaves office as one of the nation's most influential anti-death penalty advocates -- a legacy he has embraced even as an ongoing federal corruption investigation targeting his tenure as secretary of state ruined his chances for re-election and made him a pariah within his own party.

    Ryan said he sympathized with the families of the men, women and children who had been murdered, but he felt he had to act.

    "I am not prepared to take the risk that we may execute an innocent person," he wrote in an overnight letter to the victims' families warning them of his plans.

    That reasoning didn't add up for prosecutors.

    "The great, great majority of these people that have petitioned for commutation ... did not even contest their guilt," said Peoria County State's Attorney Kevin Lyons. "He's disingenuous when he says that certainty is the issue."

    With death row inmates he had recently pardoned sitting in the audience as he spoke Saturday, Ryan framed the death penalty issue as "one of the great civil rights struggles of our time."

    "Our capital system is haunted by the demon of error -- error in determining guilt, and error in determining who among the guilty deserves to die," Ryan said. "What effect was race having? What effect was poverty having?"

    Ryan had halted all executions in the state nearly three years earlier after courts found that 13 Illinois death row inmates had been wrongly convicted since capital punishment resumed in 1977 -- a period when 12 other inmates were executed.

    He said studies conducted since that moratorium was issued had only raised more questions about the how the death penalty was imposed. He cited problems with trials, sentencing, the appeals process and the state's "spectacular failure" to reform the system.

    "Because the Illinois death penalty system is arbitrary and capricious -- and therefore immoral -- I no longer shall tinker with the machinery of death," he said.

    Other governors have issued similar moratoriums and commutations, but nothing on the scale of what Ryan has done. The most recent blanket clemency came in 1986 when the governor of New Mexico commuted the death sentences of the state's five death row inmates.

    Maryland Gov. Parris Glendening, who last year issued the country's only other moratorium on state executions, has no plans to pardon or commute the sentences of any death row inmate before leaving office Wednesday, spokesman Chuck Porcari said.

    Corrections Department spokesman Sergio Molina said Ryan had signed commutation orders for 167 people -- 156 on death row and other in jails awaiting hearings or sentencing for other crimes.

    Within a week the department will start moving prisoners out of the state's two "condemned units" and into the general population of maximum-security prisons, Molina said.

    All but three of those inmates now face life in prison without the possibility of parole, Ryan said. The three will get shorter sentences and could eventually be released from prison, though none will be out immediately.

    Vern Fueling, whose son William was shot and killed in 1985 by a man now on death row, was outraged that the killer would be allowed to live.

    "My son is in the ground for 17 years and justice is not done," Fueling said. "This is like a mockery."

    Incoming Gov. Rod Blagojevich, a Democrat, also criticized Ryan's action, calling blanket clemency "a big mistake." Each case should be reviewed individually, Blagojevich said. "You're talking about people who've committed murder."

    Ryan on Friday went a step farther in four other death row cases, issuing pardons for four men he said had been tortured by police into making false confessions.

    A few hours later, Aaron Patterson, 38, walked out of prison a free man and ate his first steak dinner in 17 years, while Madison Hobley and Leroy Orange spent time with their families.

    Stanley Howard, 40, the fourth man pardoned Friday, remained in prison. He had also been convicted of a separate crime for which he was still serving time. All four had been convicted in murders.

    "It's a dream come true, finally. Thank God that this day has finally come," Hobley, 42, said Friday as he left the Pontiac Correctional Center.

    Orange, 52, walked out of Cook County Jail looking a bit dazed with his two daughters by his side.

    "Thank you with all my heart and please do something for the remaining group on death row," he said, addressing Ryan.

    Ryan announced the pardons Friday at DePaul University in the first of two speeches capping his three-year campaign to reform the state's capital punishment system.

    Patterson's mother, Jo Ann, said she was overwhelmed when she heard the news.

    "I don't believe in miracles but this is a miracle," she said.

    Cook County State's Attorney Dick Devine said the future of the four men should have been decided by the courts. His office is trying determine if the pardons could be challenged, but Devine said the clemency powers for an Illinois governor are among the broadest in the country.

    "Instead, they were ripped away from (the courts) by a man who is a pharmacist by training and a politician by trade," he said. "Yes, the system is broken, and the governor broke it today."

    Ollie Dodds, whose 34-year-old daughter, Johnnie Dodds, died in an apartment fire that Hobley was convicted of setting, said she was saddened by Ryan's decision.

    "I don't know how he could do it. It's a hurting thing to hear him say something like that," she said, adding that she still believes Hobley is responsible.

    "He doesn't deserve to be out there."

  • hillbilly
    hillbilly

    Yeru-- to condense the "official" WT stance on capital punishnent the Wt allows "Ceasar" to do what he wishes. They have written many pages over the years that rationalize in favor ( at least in principle) of death penalities, basing the articles on old Hebrew situations and other scripures. However, they always come short of endorsing the govements policy for neutrality reasons.

    When you get members to speak about their veiws ---- I found that JW's are right across the board, opinions ranging from the far left to somewhat right of Atilla the Hun on the death penalty. I feel that if all appeals have been heard, the state ( people) have the right to pull the string and execute killers and rapists.

    IL's politics are run by the Chicago boys. They have some of the tighest gun control policies in the the US. For years Illinois had no "Death penalty" in place at all. For a while the conservatives from downstate got control and made captial punishment the law in IL.

    Ryan simply thumbed his nose at the people of Illinois. Did he release the men? or just reduce their sentences?

    Within a week the department will start moving prisoners out of the state's two "condemned units" and into the general population of maximum-security prisons, Molina said.

    All but three of those inmates now face life in prison without the possibility of parole, Ryan said. The three will get shorter sentences and could eventually be released from prison, though none will be out immediately.

  • CC Ryder
    CC Ryder

    Yeru. I heard about this on the news but hadn't reviewed any details until this information that you posted. I understand that Illinois has had problems with their court system especially with regard to capital crime cases. I think doing what he did, (an accross the board dicision) wasn't really a good move. If the system has to be corrected then they should be lobbying to get it fixed and then perhaps set up a re-examination of cases that appear to have been decided upon by inaccurate or faulty evidence. Those cases that were not in this category should have stayed in tact and those who were guilty beyond doubt should be given the punishment that the system deemed upon them. Aperson who commits murder in a deliberate and premeditated way should recieve the same eventuality that they imposed upon their victims. I just could only imagine what it's like to be a family member of a victim and have to deal with that type of dicision. Just my thoughts. Thanks for posting the article.

    CC

  • Xena
    Xena

    I think the broad sweep of a brush he used to sweep away what the justice system, in place at that time, deemed worthy punishment is just as blatent a miscarriage of justice as the system he opposes. A case by case review would have been much more effective in my opinion.

    I personally believe in the death penalty when it has been shown beyond a shadow of a doubt the person is guilty of deliberate murder.

    edited for spelling *sigh*

    Edited by - Xena on 12 January 2003 11:7:51

  • kelsey007
    kelsey007

    Look at it from another perspective. You or you son were wrongly identified as a murderer. Some circumstancial evidence was brought forth that made you look guilty. You had no way to prove where you were that night and when you were younger you did have a violant temper. On top of that you have no money. The prosecution puts on a better case than your public defender. You are convicted of a crime that you did not commit and you are facing death.

    As you sit on death row appeals take place at the expense of the taxpayer and maybe a few legal aid socieites.

    Unfortunately, I agree with the governor on this one. I support the death penalty. But too many have been released only days before thier execution after DNA or other late coming evidedence was brought forth. All the governor of IL is saying is let us work to tigten up the system before we go forward. He has made a bold but common sense move. The government allows for the taspayer to pay huge monies in automatic appeals for those sentenced to death- but for the most part does not allow for aid in DNA testing and other post- conviction investigations.

    If it were you or your son that had been wrongfully convicted and sat on death row knowing that you or your child was not guilty- but did not have the resources to prove this in a broken system- you would support the governors bold move.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    I have to play devil's advocate here, as it so annoys me that people think being on death row and being guilty are the same thing. This is not directed at any individual, more the attitude.

    So, here's my devil's advocate justification for the death penalty...

    I know the statistics prove that as many people are found not guilty on re-trial as are executed. Which means tossing a coin is as good a guide to someones guilt during the first trial as the actual trial itself. But we weed out most of the mistakes by the time we get round to killing them - although you'd have to be an idiot to think we got it right ALL the time. So some of the people who get executed are innocent. Which is tough for them. But the stats also show you're far more likely to be executed for a comparable crime if you're non-white, or poor, and some people have been executed for crimes they committed as children, and some people who would of been called morons, in less PC times, have also been executed. So even to begin to pretend things are fair is stupid. As the legal system lets out guilty people, if they're the right colour and or/rich, we gotta kill some innocent or incapable ones to even things out, don't we?

    So, yeah, innocent people die, but it makes me feel safer to know that people are being killed for bad things. The people who get killed might not be the people who did the bad things, but at least someone is punished. Of course, it would be pretty shitty to be one of the inoccent ones who gets killed, but I'm sure they are happy to die knowing that they made my intellectually sloppy dumb ass feel safer.

    Now, if you support the death penalty, and this pastiche is not an accurate representation of your feelings, you needn't feel insulted. If it is a fair pastiche of your feeling, then I'm not really botherd if you are insulted.

  • troucul
    troucul

    I liked Alan Dershowitz's take on it. He talked about the conversation between God and Lot, as to whether there were 1000, 100, and 10 faithful people in Sodom and if God would save the city if he found at least one faithful person.

    Governa made the right decision. The process is broken and seeing as innocent people are being convicted of crimes left and right, it's better to let a hundred guilty people live rather than execute one innocent person. The judicial process in this country is a joke. I wonder how many hundreds of innocent people have been killed already because of our judicial process. As much as I believe in an eye for an eye, it simply doesn't work in this country.

  • Xena
    Xena

    Lets face facts, life isn't fair...and no I don't know how I would feel if someone I knew and loved was on death row and I knew for a fact they were innocent and didn't have the resources to prove it...I also don't know how I would feel if someone I knew for a fact was guilty of killing someone I knew and loved was going to have their death penality sentence communted.

    What I do know is this...we have a process of law in our country...these people went thru that process and were judged and sentenced by it....it makes a mockery of this when he with one fell swoop just does away with it...AGAIN if there is indeed a problem with the system, delay the death sentences and go over them case by case to determine if there is indeed a reason to commute these sentences. May take more time and money but is seems to be more just to everyone concerned.

  • chachasmum
    chachasmum

    TROUCUL

    DITTO!!!!!!!!

  • kelsey007
    kelsey007

    THank you Xena. That I agree with.

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