Death Penalty (page 5)

Xena

That's the cool thing about not being JW's anymore...we don't HAVE to agree, huh?

Personally I enjoyed all the thought provoking ideas brought up in this thread!

Abaddon

Yiz, I can't be sure, as I am posting from an Opera Browser (not from choice, can't see point in pesky thing), and the page looks funny with words out of place.

But I'm sure you didn't state whether you would be willing to die as a result of a judicial error, being executed for a crime that you didn't commit.

Without you replying to that, your words are empty. After replying to that, your words will still be empty, as if it did happen to you, you'd change your mind.

So, you're willing to sacrifice innocent people in the name of justice, as long as it isn't you.

I don't seriously take your claims on how a few innocent people dying is worth the untold lives judicial killing saves. Compared to judicial killing, real life imprisonment saves just as many lives, and allows for mistakes to be rectified to some extent when they occur.

Despite this, knowing that innocent people will die, when none need to, other than those touched by the original crime, you support the death penalty.

You also seem to have decided that it's not worth trying to rehabilitate people, that people should be punished. The fact it's harder to rehabilitate then punish makes this the easy choice.

The fact we'd have to address many factors in society to truely address crime and the causes of crime seems to go right on by you.
The fact that maybe it would be better if criminals didn't become criminals also evades you, on appearances. You're alright, after all, and maybe you think that some 'evil' in someones soul determines whether they're a murderer or not, rather than what happens in their life.

Sure, there are some bad people, but mostly just sad wasted lives waiting for something to go wrong. If we really want to stop people being killed, we'd better look at Society.

It's harder and more complicated, and not nearly as satisfying as a good killin', but it actually address the issue.

mike047

XENA

Abaddon; You post said it far better than I would have been able to.

mike

roybatty

ROY; When I think about life in prison, I think of life under the absolutely harshiest conditions possible without causing the demise of the convict.

One last point er...mike...(feel like I'm talking to myself there for a minute). Anyway, a while back on the local news here in Chicago they showed some home (prison) movies of Richard Speck. This was a man who back in the '60s, decided one night to break into a local building that housed nursing students. He broke in, raped all of them and then killed them in a horrible way. The only reason he was caught was that he missed one who hid under the bed. Needless to say, he was caught red handed and sentenced to death. Because of the reversal on the death penalty in the 70's his sentence was changed to life in prison. Now in these movies his life was anything BUT harsh. Here he is laughing it up with his butt buddy, doing just about anything he wants and getting just about anything he wanted. He finally died in prison of a heart attack. I guess he ate too much rich food. Anyway, can you imagine being one of the victim's family members and seeing this on tv??? It just isn't right. God, I just of something. Can you imagine of John Wayne Gacy weren't put to death a number of years ago? Good ol' Governer Ryan would have reduced his sentence to life in prison. dam.

mike047

HI ROY; I talk to myself very frequently Sometimes I even answer

There are a lot of "sorry" people in this world,granted. I just don't feel that it should be my decision to end their lives. Some of these people don't survive in prison, some lead the "life of riley".

It is my understanding, that child molesters, in prison, are at the lowest level of criminal esteem. They are treated as vermin[as they should be] even by the criminal themselves.

I really think long term HARSH prison time is more suitable punishment.

mike

Abaddon

I think the fact someguy went to prison and had fun is really irrelevent. Yes, and? A banal observation me thinks. What are you trying to say? That because people are not sobbing and crying as they dangle from the ceiling by their scrotum for the rest of their natural lives that life imprisonment is invalid and the death penalty okay?

You certainly haven't addressed the issues regarding the unneccesary deaths of innocents (other than those involved in the ooriginal crime) that the death penalty results in, so it just seems you're changing the subject.

I might be wrong, I'm over sensitive to switch and bait techniques.

But I really don't see your point. To treat people as 'harshly' as some would appear to like, it would be neccesary to re-write the Consitution. And I know, even when it's really neccesary to revise centuries old ideas about gun control that have caused huge problems in modern American society, people are very reluctant to do that, so it seems strange to want to do it just to satisfy some punative instinct.

Remember, revenge and justice are two different things. Anyone hurts me or mine, I'd likely want revenge. I would fool myself it was justice though!

roybatty

I think the fact someguy went to prison and had fun is really irrelevent. Yes, and? A banal observation me thinks. What are you trying to say? That because people are not sobbing and crying as they dangle from the ceiling by their scrotum for the rest of their natural lives that life imprisonment is invalid and the death penalty okay?

Um...no, where in my conversation am I advocating torture? I simple believe that in cases of horrific capital crimes, the death penalty should be considered. Do I believe they should be hanged, shot in the head or decapitated? No. Lethal injection works just fine. Just as one would put down a mad dog, these animals deserve the same treatment.

I might be wrong, I'm over sensitive to switch and bait techniques.

Yes, you are wrong. In an earlier post, Mike made the a statement (I don't remember it exactly) about life in prison being horrible. I'm not certain if this is true or not. I cited the example of Richard Speck. While I don't believe his accommodations were on par with the Ritz Carlton, I would say that they were horrible. As a matter of fact, for a man who killed a house full of women, it didn't seem like his punishment was all that bad.

roybatty

And I know, even when it's really neccesary to revise centuries old ideas about gun control that have caused huge problems in modern American society, people are very reluctant to do that,

Talk about "bait and switch."

Anyway, I'm for stricter gun control. I'm not sure if it will do anything but the lack of gun laws we have here in the States is crazy. Regarding America and it's "huge problems", I'm not certain what will fix it. Certainly not getting rid of the death penalty or guns. America IS a violent society. I believe it has more to do with broken familes (esp. the lack of father figures) and the violent entertainment that has been fed to us for a generation.

troucul

To an extent I agree with Yeru. The death penalty should be considered in cases in where guilt is obvious. But as he said, the application of it, especially in Illinois merits not just a review, but an overhaul.

I think what governa was trying to do with the blanket commutation, was to force the legislature to do something about it. Anything less, and they would have just sat on their thumbs. He could be criticized for that, but I think he was just looking at the big picture. Granted, some guilty parties are getting off the hook. But maybe that was the price to pay for fixing the system. It's sad that innocent people who have nothing to do with the problem have to die.

hurt

Abaddon,

have a question: do you think the death penalty could be applicable in any # of cases at all?

Death Penalty

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