Jan 1, 2003 WT. Contradictory messages

by refiners fire 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  refiners fire

  I know there has been a long thread already on this article, but perhaps I have observed something others have not. I dont know cause I havent read the entire thread!!

  AnywayIve just been reading this KEEP ON THE WATCH Article in The WT of January 1, 2003.

  Frankly I find it a little .contradictory. It seems to give mixed messages with regard to just how close the End actually is.

  Paragraph 6 tells us:

  . In Mark chapter 13, we find another account of Jesus exhortation to his followers that they stay awake. According to this chapter, Jesus compares their situation to that of a door keeper waiting for his master to return from a journey abroad.. Jesus referred to 4 different watches during which the master might arrive . The fourth watch lasted from about 3 in the morning until sunrise. On that final watch , drowsiness could easily overcome the doorkeeper.

  Then the article draws a modern parallel:

  Similarly, at this late hour .we might face our greatest struggle to stay awake.

  The magazine uses the term spiritual drowsiness . I love those little dub terms, but surely this passage insinuates that we are in the darkest hour immediately before the dawn.

  In paragraph 11 the article plants the old notion of Apostolic misapprehension to cover any notions of possible failed prophecy . This is a line of argument especially favoured by Adventism, the Witnesses dont usually reference it much:

  Jesus understood, as His disciples did not at the time, that soon he would be arrested and condemned to deathJesus had warned his Apostles of these things, but they had not understood what he was saying. Hence they fell asleep while he stayed awake praying. As was true of the Apostles, our flesh is also weak and there are still some things we do not yet know.

  DO NOT YET KNOW. Therefore there are things that will be revealed at the proper time. Things unknown even now, just like the apostles didnt know as to the reality of prophetic fulfilment, still there remains the possibility of prophetic misapprehension. I guess if its good enough for the Apostles, its good enough for the mere human servants of God who run the Watchtower. So therefore the end may still be a ways off mightnt it?

  Paragraph 14 is interesting. It references the utterances of an extremely old and faithfull sister Margaret, shes about 90. This is a ploy that the Watchtower has used before. They get some ancient one to recollect The days of Rutherford and the ancient one invariable remembers things the way the WT wants them remembered. They remember that The Harp of God book said that Jesus returned in 1914. When in actuality it says he returned in 1874. The thing about using oldsters to reminice about the history of bygone days is that its a way for the Watchtower to print LIES about its history without having to accept responsibility.

  It wasnt US saying it. It was old brother so and so, and his memory is not too good.

  Sister Margaret, who IS a member of the spirit anointed, says one thing that is most interesting:

  . EVEN NOW THERE ARE MANY PLACES WHERE THE WORK IS JUST OPENING UP.

  Capitals mine.If the work is just opening up in certain countries, like Russia, might there not be a greater delay than was expected? This is a member of the 144,000 saying this. The theoretical Channel of truth. The FDS. But its not the Governing Body, eh?

  Crafty bastards arent they??
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  AlanF

  Lots of good points, RF!

  : The thing about using oldsters to reminice about the history of bygone days is that its a way for the Watchtower to print LIES about its history without having to accept responsibility.

  : It wasnt US saying it. It was old brother so and so, and his memory is not too good.

  I've harped on this theme for a long time. They're tricky bastards, no?

  AlanF
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  refiners fire

  AlanF. So you think they do this with the oldies too huh? Its a theory Ive had for a while. Theyre getting the remnant to say it, but not the actual "Channel".Its still in the WT though. Actually i just posted a thread about the subject " Getting Grampa to lie" . Id appreciate youre opinion on whether what the Old boy in the article says is correct of not.
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  Ed

  The article seems like an awfully long-winded way of saying "We don't know and neither do you".

  This is a member of the 144,000 saying this. The theoretical Channel of truth. The FDS. But its not the Governing Body, eh? Crafty bastards arent they??

  They certainly like to let other people give orders and opinions for them. It's like when they write "Some mature Christians have reasoned that...[x]" where x is the latest policy change.

  Come on, guys. If you really have all this authority from God, and He is really making these decisions, then say so. Lay it on the line. Say "Jehovah revealed [x] to us on 1 January 2003 approximately 3:00pm." If it's really true, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying it like that. Go on. I dare you.
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  LyinEyes

  Thank you for this thread, it is so strange now to see the techniques they use , all the double, cover their asses, talk. I never saw it as a JW,,,,,, only once I left in my heart did things start popping off the pages at me. I no longer receive any Watchtowers and Awakes,,,,,,,,, I honestly have to admit that the reason I didnt want to see them , was I was afraid the very look of them would provoke that fear factor in me. It did happen once when I first left. A brother gave us a new book,,,,,,, and I cried for days. It took a long time to be able to beleive in my heart this was not God's channel of communication , as I was taught as a child and believed with all my heart for most of my years.

  Now I honestly laugh at some of the old books and mags I find still laying around.

  But really, thanks for breaking those paragraphs down, and helping us to see the games they are still playing. Just the way they phrase things , makes me sick to my stomach,,,,,,, that theocractic talk,,,,,,,, gag.......

  I think by doing this,,,,,,, using the WT's own words will be what will make masses leave ........ that is what did it for me. So all who visit this site, but just are not sure,,,like I once was,,,, can not deny the proff. It is right in their hands no doubt and they now have the seed planted in their heads to see if they get that out of the mags....they will want to prove that, it is not true. But sooner or later they will have to admit to themselves that the WT is wording things in away so as to be able to change it later.

  Good work!!!!!!!!
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  Derrick

  As was true of the Apostles, our flesh is also weak and there are still some things we do not yet know.

  The logical conclusion to this statement is that in 100 years from now, the "some" things of the small percentage we do not yet know will expand to 100%. The future Governing Body members who are not not yet born today will look back and be able to accurately conclude that we knew nothing. The future "elect" will likely teach that we are no different than all the other churches of Christendom that groped in the darkness for thousands of years after Christ's ascension. It is ironic that we are in the same spiritual darkness that our religion relegated to all other religions during its more youthful and idealistic stage decades ago.

  We are back to square one. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200. For some, go directly to JAIL. All in all, we are each on our own, having come full circle. The present GB failed to mention in their comment about that the flesh is so weak that essentially we know nothing. Like those who have died before us over the many generations we are discovering that the "test" is not even pass or fail. We simply live, hopefully learn to love, we pass away, and that's all she wrote. Those with faith in God have the present comfort that we will return to life. The present GB is unable to accept this simple truth because it means the worldwide preaching work is meant to give comfort to generations into the future destined to die of old age, and introduce them to their Creator, not for the purpose of saving them. Christ already gave his life for the salvation of all who ever lived.

  As a side comment, I see the social barbarism on this forum and practically all other Internet forums, and in the world in general, as evidence that we are far from the "time of the end" Jesus Christ prophesied. Even those with the richest and most illustrious standard of living in all of human history are ruled by their base instincts. Only a small percentage of the population has had the opportunity to consider the Bible's message and take sides in the epic battle between good and evil. It dawns on me that we're still living in the Dark Ages, and that Jehovah's Witnesses are still one facet of the world's religions groping through this social and spiritual darkness. We never left the Dark Ages. Technology artificially illuminates this mostly impoverished world filled with spiritually mindless "ape like" people who are no more enlightened than their ancestors hundreds of years ago. As ancient Egyptian society existed over 100 times the present 200+ year existence of American society, for example, it is not difficult to comprehend this world going another several millenniums before the glorious millennium of Jesus Christ spoken about in the Bible commences. The present GB of Jehovah's Witnesses should prepare for this eventuality and focus its efforts at introducing people to the Bible simply for the sake of helping them appreciate our Creator and his epoch plan that spans throughout eternity.

  Derrick
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  SYN

  We never left the Dark Ages. Technology artificially illuminates this mostly impoverished world filled with spiritually mindless "ape like" people who are no more enlightened than their ancestors hundreds of years ago. As ancient Egyptian society existed over 100 times the present 200+ year existence of American society, for example, it is not difficult to comprehend this world going another several millenniums before the glorious millennium of Jesus Christ spoken about in the Bible commences. The present GB of Jehovah's Witnesses should prepare for this eventuality and focus its efforts at introducing people to the Bible simply for the sake of helping them appreciate our Creator and his epoch plan that spans throughout eternity.

  That is hilarious! You are such an inordinately optimistic person, Derrick! Do you honestly think that the people who have The Big Red Button underneath their thumbs in many developed countries will not press it for millenia to come? Saying things like this when the world is poised on the brink of self-annihilation (SP?) does not seem like a good idea. Honestly, we don't need a Big Brother to destroy all the evil people - in the coming war, everybody will be killed, "good" or "bad".

  Nuclear weapons do not care how good or bad you are. Radiation kills sinners and saints alike.
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  ozziepost

  G'day R.F.

  I guess us downunder people are easily confused for I found another puzzling paragraph.

  Paragraph 3 speaks of Christians being compared "to slaves waiting for their master to return from a wedding" (Luke 12:40). "Some who have served Jehovah over many years may lose their sense of urgency..."

  Why puzzling? Because this parable has previously been applied to the anointed remanant. So either this study article is directed to the few thousand remaining members of "the remnant" or it's being misapplied to the "Great Crowd".

  But then, perhaps I'm easily confused!!!!!!!!

  Cheers, Ozzie
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  OHappyDay

  In Sunday's Watchtower study the "faithful slave" finally admitted that it makes mistakes and is not infallible.

  Jehovah's Witnesses have made the mistake of every Christian denomination since Christ failed to return in the first century. They made the Return the basis of their teachings and hopes. They prophesied it and dated it. All to no avail. Neither chronology nor anything else is of any use. Christ will return when he wants to, and there's nothing we can do about it.

  I agree that the Bible's core message of the good, moral life is what the world needs right now, not apocalyptic proclamations. Serve God and benefit mankind, the spiritual future will take care of itself.
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  blondie

  Have you ever had someone say they made a mistake and are sorry, but then when you ask them to be specific they can't name anything specific? How can they really be sorry if they are not aware what they did?

  The WTS may say they are not infallable, but I have never found one place in writing where they specifically name a mistake they made and take full responsibility for it.

  If you have know of one,post it here.

  Blondie