Onacruse and Bikerchic Experience Landmark Forum

onacruse

Katie and I just finished a 3-day marathon "The Landmark Education Forum."

Let me just say, our "cult" red lights began flashing big-time within the first 1/2 day.

cellomould started a jw.com thread about this "Forum" last year http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=22167&site=3 Nobody came back about any experiences with Landmark.

If we'd read cello's thread before we went, and done a little Google search, we wouldn't have wasted our time and money. At least we can take pride that we detected the scam and won't finish the friggin course!!! Also, we have a number of people in our lives to warn about this quasi-religious cult.

Landmark is a spin-off from "est" and related to Scientology.

For your reading pleasure():

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/est_draft.html#history

http://homepage.mac.com/jk8/landmark/

Carig & Katie (of the "rather have diarrhea than Dianetics" class)

Edited by - onacruse on 13 January 2003 3:46:24

Edited by - onacruse on 14 January 2003 2:4:5

ESTEE

(((((onacruse)))))

Ewwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!

How awful!!!

I'm experiencing JW flashbacks just reading about it!

Love,

ESTEE

onacruse

A little history:

Our Recruitment: We went only because a friend (who I will certainly be calling at the break of dawn tomorrow) did Landmark several years ago, and was really impressed.

Our Experience: 9 am to midnight, three days in a row, leaving the room constituted forfeiture of the experience, wear name tags at all times, remain silent in seats unless called on, don't sit next to someone you know, everything you think you know is invalid, stop taking all medications (incl aspirin) except what the doctor requires, homework assignments for every break and overnight, not "sharing" was a violation, sharing and not "getting it" was a violation, we're all stupid, the Forum Leader is not like us, 1-hr sales pitches for the next forum every 4 hours, parades of "success" stories....

More later

Craig

Edited by - onacruse on 13 January 2003 4:29:59

Mystla

So, What was your first clue??

Glad you were able to escape!

Mystla

onacruse

Mystla, it was a very strange "memory" experience. Sort of like the 8-day international assemblies, or the Friday pm-Sun pm circuit assemblies. Total involvement expected, complete acceptance expected, ultimate success and happiness promised, "success" stories provided.

Katie and I looked back and forth at each other dozens of times...we recognized the pattern, but it was packaged just enough differently to be seductive.

Seductive is the key, eh? Cultic organizations may change their name, but their modus operandi remains the same.

Craig

PS: There is a Tuesday evening meeting scheduled. I'm seriously thinking that I should go and selectively warn the people I met this weekend. Any suggestions?

Edited by - onacruse on 13 January 2003 4:41:46

LyinEyes

I just got a brochure in the mail,,, from Scientoligist......hheehehe,,,,,,,, It asked,,,,,,,,"How Toxic Are You?"............they believe any medications, sun exposure, all kinds of things must be detoxified out of your body by running, and sitting in a sauna to sweat it out. I have to admit I think I am pretty toxic, I do take a number of meds mostly over the counter , and I have started smoking. I would probably be d/f if I joined them too. Not to mention my love of wine and whiskey sours.

But honestly, I do see some good points in clearing your system of all certain pollutants. But darn that is hard!!!!!!!!!

I have no desire to join another group for any reason at this point in my life.

Farkel

Craig,

I was VERY involved in est in the late 1970's. Four years worth. I met and spoke with Werner Erhard. I had a buddy who took the very first est training in 1971 in Werner's home. I was a logistics superviser and Training Supervisor. I received much benefit from that experience. The Forum is wimpy compared with the original est "Training." Werner acknowledged that he borrowed freely from everything from Scientology to Zen and wrapped it all together.

I got an incalculable benefit from all of it. I learned to think and react to life events in ways I never dreamed possible. That being said, I also began to consider it to be a cult, too. Werner went out of his way to try to get people to believe that he was merely a messenger and nothing more. Of course, he did it in a way that people couldn't help but want to worship him. He got into trouble with the IRS and was banging his groupie fems every chance he got. est became the Forum because of lawsuits and because his second wife was divorcing him and he wanted to keep as much of his assets as possible away from her.

I don't admire the man anymore. I do admire what he accomplished. To become a full-fledged Training Superviser (equivalent to a Circuit Overseer) I had to finish a GSLP (Guest Seminar Leader's Program) course. I went to Los Angeles to the first session of the course and bolted at the break and never returned. It was without question, a hard-core sales training course, designed to get more recruits for Werner's pet Cult.

Farkel

bikerchic

LyinEyes:

I do see some good points in clearing your system of all certain pollutants.

You can do all the clearing of toxic pollutants you need to do on your own. Get a book from the library on it or Amazon.com and follow the plan. Is it hard.....only as hard as you make it which depends on how baddly your need/desire is to be pollutant free.

What I'm trying to say (still punchy from sleep depravation) is you don't need to join a cult to learn how to do it......they don't corner the market on this concept which is what every cult wants you to think that they are the end all to the problems in your life. LOL

Best of luck in your quest Dede!

Katie (sleep........I need sleep..........zzzzzzz)

hee,hee before I run off to sleep I just gotta say Farkel I knew you were one cool dude now I know why........you trained to be one!

Edited by - bikerchic on 13 January 2003 14:47:0

onacruse

Farkel:

I got an incalculable benefit from all of it. I learned to think and react to life events in ways I never dreamed possible.

I agree. There were a lot of people there that experienced real breakthroughs in their view of themselves and their view of life. After all, the Forum scabbed ideas from great thinkers like Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Heidigger, Kant, Sarte and Wittgenstein. Who wouldn't be expanded by contemplating and implementing the concepts of these historic philosophies? It was clear that this Forum was the first time in their lives that many (most?) of the participants had ever been exposed to such ideas, and it certainly is valid to say that they were transformed by it.

But not uniquely transformed. That's where the cultic nature of the Forum really kicked in. "You can't get this anywhere but through Landmark!" "If you don't get it here, and now, you'll never get it!" "This seminar is just the beginning, and we have a whole series of courses that you must go to if you're to really benefit from what you got here!" There were a number of people there that were in Alcoholics Anonymous, and when they began to share with the group about their growth and recovery in AA, the Forum Leader quickly shut them down. In the 45 hours we were in session, fully 15 hours were spent in one way or another promoting Landmark's other programs and pressuring everyone in the group to "enroll" their friends/family/workmates into Landmark. The Forum Leader (yes, that was his title) went so far as to say "If you don't enroll others in Landmark, you haven't really made a breakthrough." And the Leader said much of this in a shrill scream. My ears were so sore...the peace and quiet of my office is deafening.

They had the equivalent of Service Meetings. "How to enroll others," "How to overcome objections," regular sharings of "how I got so-and-so to agree to come to the Tuesday night Intro session." Leaving the room, even to go to the bathroom, was virtually prohibited, and arriving even 1 minute late for the next session was humiliating. But if you were working the phones to get enlistment for Tuesday's session, all the "rules" disappeared.

Craig

AlanF

And how much did all this enlightenment cost you guys?

AlanF

Onacruse and Bikerchic Experience Landmark Forum

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