Onacruse and Bikerchic Experience Landmark Forum (page 2)

Mulan

I am so relieved. When I read the title of this, I freaked out "don't they know it's a cult?"

So glad you saw through it. I guess all of us would be able to do that though.

onacruse

Alan: $375 each, but my "friend" prepaid my part.

That's another thing. The next step is the Advanced Course. Regular "tuition" is $795 each, but, in recognition of our completion of the basic Forum, they'll give us a $200 discount...but only if we sign up by 3 pm this Friday. And, we better hurry, because this course fills up fast, and limited seating. If that's a hardship, well, then, just "be unreasonable" (a quote) and do whatever it takes to enroll..."THIS IS YOUR LIFE!!!!" (another quote)

Craig

AlanF

Geez! Yeah, that sounds like Scientology alright. They really know how to milk you.

AlanF

onacruse

Mulan:

I guess all of us would be able to do that though.

Yep! Katie and I were real glad to see that our "Cult Advanced Warning Systems" are still fully functional.

Thinking about your anniversary (congrats to you both ): Another demand of the Leader was that we not sit next to anyone we knew. Halfway through the first day, he read off a list of 5 (new) requirements, and asked everyone in the group to raise their hands and agree to the terms. We didn't agree to the one about sitting apart. Then on Saturday, he went into a tirade about how some in the group were not abiding by the terms. I was sitting there with Katie, my arm around her, and he practically bored right through us with his beady little black eyes. We sat together the whole time anyway.

I feel so guilty about our "independent thinking." LOL

Craig

Edited by - onacruse on 13 January 2003 16:8:46

cellomould

I tried to explain to the forum leader at Landmark (which was about two years ago) how involvement in the Forum was helping me get over my previous religious 'cult' experience. Needless to say, she seemed unflattered by my comments. I suspect she was hiding her reaction to what I was saying, as she tended to avoid direct eye contact with me or anyone else. (Did you guys notice this?)

As much as I saw through everything the entire time, I still enjoyed the experience. I understood human nature a good deal better afterward. I understood the difference between myself and my JW friends and family.

And overcoming inhibitions (by sharing experiences with strangers, for example) was cool.

But I absolutely hated the crass salesmanship.

I think the worst thing about it is that you are promised success through independence, but in reality you are offered success (acceptance in disguise) through dependence.

One other thing...there is always someone at these types of seminars who is adamantly opposed to being actively involved...then they make a 180 and say they loved it so much and they were so sorry they got angry. Kinda fishy, I'd say.

thanks for your comments (and e-mail)

cellmould

onacruse

cellomould:

I still enjoyed the experience.

At the "religious movements" URL above, they reported (bold added):

In a survey done by Daniel Yankelovich, Chairman of DYG, Inc., was conducted of more than 1300 people who had completed the The Landmark Forum during a three month period. He found that more than seven out of ten people found Landmark Forum to be one of their most rewarding experiences.

There are, quite evidently, breakthrough experiences for a lot (majority?) of the attendees. Katie and I are already living the transformations we began to experience years ago via Alcoholics Anonymous (me) and Adult Children of Alcoholics (her), as well as escaping the WTS cult and participating in the jw.com forum. As a result, there was no "breakthrough" for us at Landmark.

For that matter, any and every cult must elicit some benefit and impact on its members, or they would just fade away. Doesn't change the fact that they are a cult. Like you said:

you are promised success through independence, but in reality you are offered success (acceptance in disguise) through dependence.

Craig

onacruse

I just made a correction to the title of this thread and to the body of the first post.

Landmark IS directly related to "est," and "est" did borrow many ideas and techniques from Hubbard's Dianetics and from Scientology. However, the techniques and teachings of the two are so close that Hubbard took "est" to court on more than one occasion.

In the interests of accuracy, I made the changes above to reflect that Landmark is not Scientology, per se.

Craig

Farkel

cello,

: One other thing...there is always someone at these types of seminars who is adamantly opposed to being actively involved...then they make a 180 and say they loved it so much and they were so sorry they got angry. Kinda fishy, I'd say.

In my four years of involvement, there were no "faked" testimonies. They were all spontaneous and from the heart. I knew all the major players, including the 7 original Trainers and Werner himself. Werner did a good thing for many people and once said to a large group of us, "what difference would it make to you if I took all the money and fled to Brazil? Would what you've received from the Training be lessened at all from that?" I could honestly say to myself, "No. I certainly got my money's worth."

I left my participation in the very early 1980's so I cannot say how it is operating now. I will say that since I was an "old-timer" in that game and had "assisted" for four years and at great expense to myself and my family, I was given free tuition to see one of the very first "Forums" (the newer format). I laughed. est was hardball. The "Forum" was watered down for wimps!

I didn't even bother to attend the second weekend. I had assisted in over 100 est trainings and countless seminars. There was nothing more to offer to me. I "took what I got" and got on with my life.

By the way, I paid 500 bucks for the original est training and that was around 1978. "Supermarket psychology" was very hip in those days. I guess it's not so hip anymore if it only costs $375 some twenty-two years later, considering inflation and stuff.

Farkel

plmkrzy

Let me just say, our "cult" red lights began flashing big-time within the first 1/2 day.

you must have been reallly open minded to last a whole 1/2 day.

Glad you got out of there with your mind's in-tact! I hope you did anyway

plum.

Edited by - plmkrzy on 14 January 2003 3:37:17 not enough L's

Edited by - plmkrzy on 14 January 2003 3:37:52

onacruse

I just had a 2 hour conversation with the friend that recommended Landmark to me. It was a big surprise that our Forum was conducted the way it was, and a disappointment. Perhaps we got stuck with a "Leader" that was more of the "est" style.

There was some good stuff there, and we saw that a lot of people got new ways of looking at life. As far as the cultic nature is concerned, I'll stick with the "if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck" philosophy.

And just to prove that our minds are still intact: Plum, would you please lean real hard on Alan to pay up on that interest he owes you, and then send Katie and me the money so we can take the Advanced Course?

Craig

Onacruse and Bikerchic Experience Landmark Forum

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