when did the jw's stop praying in Jesus name? just curious
orb
study set with p.o. 1-18-03 at high NOON
by johnny cip 26 Replies latest jw friends
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Mum
In Ray Franz' book, he discusses the issue of Jesus as mediator. There was "new light" on this apparently some time in the 1980's. The "great crowd" can no longer claim Jesus as their mediator, according to current WT theology and what Franz wrote. I can't imagine what kind of convoluted Bible flipping brought them to this bizarre notion. As I remember, the scripture says there is one mediator between God and man, and that mediator is Jesus. But the Watchtower's whole point is to replace Jesus with their morally bankrupt organization.
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ugg
no win battle....he and who ever comes with him,,,will leave in a hurry and they will make your ass .grass.....(disfellowship)
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Yerusalyim
I say lock the doors so they can't get out, tie them to their chairs and MAKE THEM LISTEN.
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Dawn
Ask him to prove - using only the Bible - that the "Great Crowd" of Revelation is an earthly class.
He'll use a lot of twisting and explanations - but there is no way to prove it. Every time the great crowd is mentioned in Revelation it is in HEAVEN and before the throne of God - and they are there BEFORE Armageddon......hmmm..........
Oh - and the "other sheep" Jesus spoke about that they use to tie into the Great Crowd? If read in context it's clear he was speaking of the Gentiles - which the way for them would be opened up after his death.
I've used this one a number of times and have never had a JW that could prove it - of course, 'cause they're WRONG.
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Mary
I think you're smart to emphasize that there's no proof or even indication that Jehovah chose the F&DSC in 1919, because Jesus never "returned" in 1914, because their 2,520 year "prophecy" is out by 20 years, as Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 BCE, not 607 BCE. Without that date, the entire structure of the religion falls apart.
I would also point out that Jesus merely said "Who is the faithful and discreet servant? Happy is he IF his master arrives.....blah blah, blah." It doesn't say that that this servant WOULD be found faithful, and it certainly doesn't identify this servant as a bunch of old men in New York City 2,000 years after these words were spoken.
I would also emphasize Matthew chapter 24 and how the word "parousia" means "return, arrival, advent, coming" as well as "presence". Reading this chapter, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that it would be an "invisible return" as the JWs say, because it specifically says "every eye will see him". Now your PO will say that this is only referring to the "eye of understanding" and that only certain ones understood this in 1914. You can then hit him with the zapper: then why was this doctrine that Jesus "returned" in 1914 not published until the 1920s? Up until then, the Bible Students believed Jesus had returned in 1874. If no one was aware that he (supposedly) returned in 1914, then how did ANYONE understand this with "the eye of understanding"?
Watch his face fall to the floor.
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Blueblades
Johnny Cip, Nice and simple,the Society has a list of teachings which they claim SHOWS that they are Jehovah God's approved organization.We don't have to detail the list as it is extensive.Just ask one question that will be a conversation stopper! ( remember that, conversation stoppers)
Question # 1:If the Society's teachings are proof that it is right, why are all these teachings different from what was believed eighty years ago?
Response # 1:You need to understand that we are continually getting " new light " and are making progress.
Rebuttal # 1: The things that you label pagan today are the things that you use to teach as truth. If these things are pagan, then the Society was a pagan organization eighty years ago.
Why would God choose an organization which held so many pagan beliefs to be "His sole channel of communication to the earth eighty years ago ?" Blueblades
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Searchin50
The issue of not saying prayers in Jesus name anymore was in
Question from readers in watchtower about 6 months ago i think
give or take a month maybe. I will look it up i promise.
It said that it was ok not to say it or if you forgot to say it
that was ok to but, when praying in public such as
at the Kingdom Hall, one must always say in Jesus name.
What a joke____________________
What do you all think? but I will look it up.
Searchin50
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Carmel
Ask him for his car keys before you start. Now you have a captive audience and remember, friends don't let friends drive DRUNK!
caveman
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SLOAN
Just wanted to say, "Good Luck"!!!!!!! Please tell us how it goes. Go get em!!