The only problem with marriage statistics is that I don't think they take into account how rare it is for a couple who has not lived together to get married. The non'livers are a far smaller bunch to track than those that live together. It is like the old Pot leads to harder drugs theory. While it is flawed it is still accepted as fact. Something like marriage always comes down to the individuals involved.
FINALLY stood up to my father re: religion!
by back2dafront 18 Replies latest jw experiences
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johnny cip
back2front: you did a great job... they want to talk about pre mariage sex... etc.. but you got to the point the wt is full of crap. i like the check out the car's history FIRST.... SEE jw's want to comtrol the conversation all the time... but when you hit them with something they have not been PROGRAMMED TO ANSWER... they stand in silence... when they do try a come back it's on a different SUBJECT.... i went to my dad's house today and gave him a sermon on the daniel book chapter 17, he laughed a t me for 20 minutes... then i pulled a few choice wt's out of his library he stopped laughing fast... and through me out of the house.... i laughed all the way out. they are truely under some form of mind control.... but keep the door open and control the converation.... freedom in christ ....john
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Mulan
I thought it was this spiritual, righteous haven, and although there are spiritual-minded people there, it's a BUSINESS. It's a CORPORATION, dad - and they do things just like any other corporation does things - their main concern is STAYING IN BUSINESS. That's what's it all about.
This was very enlightening to my husband too. He went to Bethel several times to do construction work, and came home more disillusioned each time. Finally he said he woudn't accept another assignment. They kept calling him for a few more years, even after we stopped attending, entirely. He always told me it is a publishing corporation, and only interesting in preserving itsself.
You did a great job!!
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joenobody
I have to say, I really liked the line of reasoning you used. The VIN analogy was perfect to strike a note with your dad. The "ruining the earth"/take everything literally angle was also simply brilliant.
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seawolf
it's a BUSINESS. It's a CORPORATION, dad - and they do things just like any other corporation does things - their main concern is STAYING IN BUSINESS. That's what's it all about.
That reminds me of one meeting when the Circuit Overseer was up on stage and talking to us all about making sure we kept on donating to the society. He told us that the society could go bankrupt and out of business, just like any other corporation if they don't get enough money.
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freedom96
I think you gave your father some things to think about. Sounds like you handled yourself very well.
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funkyderek
Regarding the marriage statistics, it seems that it is more common for couples who have lived together first to split up than for those who have remained "chaste" until marriage. The most likely reason for this is that the former group have realistic expectations and goals and if they realise the marriage was a mistake they end it. The latter group are far more likely to be religious and opposed to the idea of divorce, and thus will stick with a loveless marriage. How you spin this depends on how you define success.
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blacksheep
Glad you had the confidence to speak your mind. I wouldn't worry a bit about the marriage "stats." Having sex before marriage seems to me to be an odd correlate to a successful marriage. Maybe back in the days where people had to wear scarlet letters for pre-marital sex: the guilt alone would probably damper the marriage! But in today's world? Don't think so. Plus, I think you're right ON about the JW's marrying the first "marriagable" person simply because there's no other acceptable arrangement to experience sex than marriage. I get so sick of hearing (via JW family) about yet another 18-20 year old getting married. Like I'm supposed to be happy for them. Go to college. Travel. Get some life experience. Don't marry just to have sex. BTW, I think someone should do a study of all the broken/unhappy marriages of JW couples who marry early to have sex. I've heard WAAAAAAY too many of them.
Keep us posted!! I know well that sinking feeling/fear of finally standing up to that JW mentality...esp when it's to a parent.
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happysunshine
Way to go BTTF! I also confronted my folks for the first time about 6 months ago. They couldn't answer my points either, and I also dropped it as I didn't want to risk lossing contact. You have the making of a very solid case.
About the sex/divorce thing, I reviewed a study that showed statisticaly significant higher rates of marriages lasting longer when the couples had first lived together. Support for living together. But again, I would trust your intuition before any study. Like any research study, you have to consider the context and limitations. For example, what is success? Is staying together because of social pressure success, even if you're unhappy? Being abused on a daily basis, but still together, is that success? Also, a million other questions, for example: would a couple living together decide to change things (marriage) because they felt it would solve some other, possibly unrelated, problem (this is remenicient of the troubled couple attempting to save the relationship by having kids scenario); does marriage, or living together, change the way people react to you, and thus influence your own decision to stay together or break up (the way your family is treating you is a case in point).
Rock on dude!