We're all Americans....Reparations?

by Country Girl 106 Replies latest social humour

  • jelly
    jelly

    Your argument is so weak as to almost be pointless. How do you draw a parallel between Indians/blacks lack of education with the long-dead practice of lynching. You make a statement but then show now connection. In addition, your use of statistics is dishonest; 1882 1968 is a huge period. When people use stats like this they are attempting to paint a picture that does not exist. I would be interested to see a decade-by-decade break down of the lynchings. The point being is that the vast majority of the lynchings occurred pre 1940, extending the period to 1968 is just your attempt to paint a picture that does not exist. Not that it matters because you never showed a connection. In short, your argument is; white people treated minorities horrible in the past, give me money.

    My point is, not that you can understand because that would involve looking through your own race hate, that none of these crimes happened to you and none of the people that committed them are alive. Your viewpoint is just a self-justification for racism directed at other groups of people.

    Asians in the modern era (1960+), you know the ones living today not 150 years ago, faced the same amount of job discrimination as other minorities but because of a commitment to education they overcame. The job market today is a much more balanced playing field; the opportunities exist if you want them. Its a pity you didnt read my first post it would do you good.

    As far as 150 year old Asian discrimination, it does not matter. But, if it makes you feel better read up on the railroad industry.

    Terry

  • sableindian
    sableindian

    Please read your previous statement. Ignore my help and just procede with your proof. I have no racial hatred. You are making statements that do not pertain to my statements. How old are you, little one?

    Shalom,

    Sableindian

    PS

    Did I put quotes around those statements I presented? I sure meant to. I surely didn't mean for you to think that after I looked up those statistics that I presented them as my own statements. Please forgive me if I gave you the impression that I didn't look up the information but thought up these statistics on my own. Please take note, little one, that I am also quoting you on the expression , "same circumstances". And I would also like for you to take note of your words that implied THE PAST, not the present. The expression SUFFERED. means IN THE PAST. (Hope I am not going too fast for you, little one, if I do, please let me know.)

    There is no argument. I thought I was helping you out with your research. So as I stated previously. Ignore my help and show me the same circumstances the Indigenous and Blacks suffered that the Asians suffered.

    I know for a fact that all Whites were not bad people, just like all Jews did not murder Jesus. It is alright to read this thread and find out what people are saying here. I never said that I would benefit from reparations. I was asked if I thought others would. And I gave my opinion of others. But, one day, little one. You will grow up and see that people actually are individuals and have different opinions other than the small opinions in your mind. Just pray and Jehovah will expand your brain. It's been all squashed through out the time of your association with JWs.

    Read your post, little one. No comment. I could see you put a lot of thought in it. Very narrow because you talk about the Black community as if there are no doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, business owners, degreed people, honor students, folks with government jobs, etc. Poor people, not Black people, face these issues. Well, I could go on and on. I see that you need to just go into the Black neighborhood and associate. I did and got an eye opener.

    By the way, if you are from California...I was raised in Windsor Hills near LA. My mother was Dr. Rashiida Hameed. Part of that Black community. But not part of the poor community. Take note, Little one.

    Here is my quote I wrote to ThiChi "Thi Chi,

    I've been to the site you put up. I think it is a great site. A little information is gullible. But I happen to like this site. I think it is educational and sensitive. It is also bringing out information that minorities already knew. And, as I mentioned before, I am all for education on this issue. In fact I believe the best thing about bringing up reparations for the unproduced promise of the US government is that it is bringing out information that was ignored previously.

    Here in Georgia, we will be voiting on the Confederate flag issue. This site brings out the issue very well.

    What I believe is that each "group" that benefitted will have to make judgement for themselves what THEY will do to have themselves clear.

    Me, I'd rather have my reparations and treaty agreements with my Creator. And leave the eternal punishments to Him also.

    But in the meantime...hopefully, the education will continue.

    Shalom

    Sableindian"

    How did this thread get in Jokes and Humor? That County Girl...

    Edited by - sableindian on 28 January 2003 1:52:39

    Edited by - sableindian on 28 January 2003 2:7:23

    Edited by - sableindian on 28 January 2003 2:27:36

  • jelly
    jelly

    You refused to answer my question: what is the connection? Most probably, because there is no connection but just the attempt to string together two unrelated events.

    To answer your question, because unlike you I both have and will answer questions, your race hate comes from the fact that you feel people are guilty solely because of the color of their skin. You feel you are a victim because of your skin color, even though you have never felt the crimes you mention. You feel white people should pay for crimes that they did not commit just because they were born with the sin of being white. The society you want is not quite the colorblind society envisioned by MLK.

    So, I will repeat my questions; since the late 1960s (in recent history) Asians, African-Americans, and Indians have had the same hurdles put before them; why did Asians succeed where others have failed? How is the activities of individuals in the 1600s provide you with an excuse for your failures today?

    Looking forward to your next condescending and empty response.

    Terry

  • sableindian
    sableindian

    To answer your question, because unlike you I both have and will answer questions, your race hate comes from the fact that you feel people are guilty solely because of the color of their skin. You feel you are a victim because of your skin color, even though you have never felt the crimes you mention. You feel white people should pay for crimes that they did not commit just because they were born with the sin of being white.

    Hello, Little one,

    Who are you talking to, Little One? This is Sableindian. You must be mixing me up with someone. Please show me my quotes where I have said the things you imply. *oh, foo, I did your research again in my last post (re:ThiChi)*. Ok, I promise to stop doing your research for you.

    And I will not do your research for you. You'll have to do that yourself. I know those highschool tricks. I tried to give you a head start by giving you some reasearch to start you off. So, my statement remains the same. Or should I change it to a question by putting will you if front? Okay...WILL YOU show me the same circumstances that Blacks and Indigenous folks suffered that Asians suffered? You know, Little one, you have to back up those statements you make. And if you think that my research does not apply, so be it. I am not so "little" that I will not say I will listen to your information and ignore mine. But, Little one, where is the information.

    Waiting with panted breath for your information.

  • jelly
    jelly

    You have made the conscious decision to keep bringing up an issue that is not relevant. I guess that is much easier for you than showing some connection between your lynchings and African-American / Indian economic disparity.

    Oh well, the research you offered was not relevant to the point you were attempting to make. Even if every statement you made was true, which I didnt even debate, it does not amount to evidence to support your argument. An argument without evidence is simply an assertion. You are asserting that historical injustices for minorities justify current special privileges. My point, which you will never get, is that the whole concept of someone paying for their genetic precursors sins is itself a racist idea; completely at odds with MLKs color blind society. That is why you are a racist.

    ASIAN PREJUDICE:
    You are the first person I have met, that was not a klansmen, which argued against the existence of Asian prejudice in American. Here is a book title for you: Strangers from a different shore by Ronald Takaki Professor Asian studies UC Berkley
    Some highlights:
    Asians were not allowed to marry whites
    At one point Asian women could not immigrate to America
    Asians could only work in certain jobs (Gold mining labors, laundry workers, prostitutes)
    Asians had to pay a special foreign miners tax that was created just for them
    Asians could not own land
    Asians were paid a fraction of what white co-workers were paid when they tried to strike they were starved into submission
    Asians were interned during World War II

    Not really looking forward to your next post because I doubt it will have any value; if you can manage a coherent argument however, I would be happy to read it.

    Terry

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    jst_me,

    my people were on this continent first. I dont buy the bs land bridge theory because that is not what I have always heard. And yes there is scientific evidence to support what I am saying. We are definitely indigenous to this continent.
    So are you saying that Native Americans are a different species to humans, or that the migration was in the other direction? What "scientific evidence" do you have?
  • jelly
    jelly

    Funkyderek,

    Who needs scientific evidence? Here is the basic format for every raced based argument for, reparations, special privileges, and the legalized unequal treatment of other groups.

    Step 1: State a historical fact of past race crimes, it doesnt matter how far back you go 400 years ago is as good as yesterday. Its okay to exaggerate but not necessary.

    Step 2: Connect the fact with some problem that the minority group in question is dealing with today. No evidence needs to be made for the connection just act like A leads to B as a matter of course. If anyone questions this stare at them blankly and imply that they are a racist.

    Step 3: Give a solution that will correct the racism of the past, the usually involves money, favored job status, things like that. In essence, a reverse form of Jim crow laws.

    Example:
    (Step 1) 150 years ago my family was slaves, (Step 2) this is why my car payment is late, (Step 3) give me money.

    Terry

  • sableindian
    sableindian

    *sigh*

    Let's get back to point A.

    I read your post.

    The biggest obstacle for most minorities to achieve some form of success today is their own subculture of ignorance, victimization, and entitlement. Asian people came to America suffered the same set of unfair circumstances and made it, why not the black of Indian community? Read my previous post if you want my view. I think most of the reparations supporters should keep in mind what they want is some payment for a crime that never happened to them, and they want the people that did not commit it to pay. The playing field is mostly equal now so succeed or rot nobody stole your building blocks.

    Terry

    I see a statement:

    "Asian people came to America suffered the same set of unfair circumstances"
    Because of that statement I was concerned so I said that I was not interested in your previous post unless "you have already enumerated and documented the accusation you have of what happened to the Indigenous People and the Black People with the Asian People. "

    My mistake was looking up YOUR research for you.

    "My point, which you will never get, is that the whole concept of someone paying for their genetic precursors sins is itself a racist idea; completely at odds with MLKs color blind society. That is why you are a racist"

    We are talking about reparations from a promise made by a government that did not keep their promise. To state otherwise is quite racist in itself.

    There are legal precedents in place world wide for reparations for survivors as well as victims.

    I have never said and will never make the comparison of the Asian against the African. It was YOUR statement, little one, that made me even think of the 2.

    It is you, little one, who used the word "same". Here is the definition for your benefit.

    same

    ADJECTIVE:

    1. Being the very one; identical: the same boat we rented before.
    2. Similar in kind, quality, quantity, or degree.
    3. Conforming in every detail: according to the same rules as before.

    So since you used the word, same, I was just wondering were the Asian brought here by force or did they choose. Were the Asians able to keep their culture, language and education? Were the children of the Asians taken from them so that they could not be taught the skills of the parents? After the Asians attained their freedom (same circumstances) and they acquired cities where they became doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. Did the jealous people constantly come and burn them out and never give them any insurance, blame them for burning down their cities? And after the years of lynchings of the Asian males for looking at white women, walking on the wrong side of the street and answering in the wrong way (talking back) image did they young men have to look up to as they grew up fatherless?

    I understand the Asian dilemma. And I admire their ability to overcome. That is why you will never see an Asian, White, etc in the prison system and poor.

    Bravo for your analogy.

    Then again...when one does see (and I use the term 'when' loosely) a poor Asian, an uneducated or criminal White. What are we all to think of him? So blessed in your eyes and having so much going for him. What becomes of the image of a White man who is a successful criminal, murderer or rapist? I'll tell you what...they make movies about him and it becomes Oscar material.

    Think about it.

    By the way, have you ever read the reporter's story called "Black Like Me"?

    I think the problem here, little one, is that you are not focused. I have never come here to argue, although you seem to want to. I have always been willing to see another point of view, that is why I ask for research. I have never argued against the Asian position. Arguing and asking for the back up of your comparisons are 2 different issues. Sooo, I see from your post that you know Klansmen. Now it all fits.

    "You are the first person I have met, that was not a klansmen" I've never met a Klansman. Not knowingly anyway. Wow...deep

    Asians were not allowed to marry whites (like they really wanted to with the beautiful women they already had. LOL funny)
    At one point Asian women could not immigrate to America (at one point no women were allowed. So they just ravaged the indigenous woman!)
    Asians could only work in certain jobs (Gold mining labors, laundry workers, prostitutes) Wow, they had jobs. Were they paid? Or were they paid and then had to buy from the owner's store? Were they educated enough to read or were they left uneducated so that when they were paid they weren't cheated.
    Asians had to pay a special foreign miners tax that was created just for them (yep, sounds pretty much like the status quo to me)
    Asians could not own land (oh so that is why they didn't get burned out. Well that was actually a protection in the long run, thank God)
    Asians were paid a fraction of what white co-workers were paid when they tried to strike they were starved into submission
    Asians were interned during World War II

    Wow, who did all these bad things to the Asians? Pretty gloomy, although, in your words, they are not the "SAME CIRCUMSTANCE".

    Wow, those folks who did this to Asians, Blacks, Jews, Irish, Indigenous, women and children were just a bunch of bullies who left the 20th and the 21st century holding a big bag of ....

    And my point is that if all these bad things happened to the Asians and they overcame, I wonder what would have happened if they had to overcome under the SAME CIRCUMSTANCES that African slaves had to overcome (and many did. Read your Black history). And by the way...all Asians weren't interned. Only the Japanese. They're different, you know.

    Sable at the table.

  • sableindian
    sableindian

    Hi, Funkyderek

    Jst_me was replying to your post

    "Humans are not indigenous to the Americas."

    Could you please clarigy your statement? I'd just like to know where you're coming from.

    Thanks

    Sable being able

  • jelly
    jelly

    What you are refusing to acknowledge is that in recent times all minorities have suffered the same set of challenges. This is especially true of recent history (post 1960) and in relation to economics. Asians succeed where other minorities fail and fail miserably; my premise is that Asians tend to succeed due to their culture which stresses education. Unlike, the Indian and African American cultures which do not put the same emphasis on education and has huge problems with alcohol and drug abuse. The reason for your failure as a group has everything to do with your current belief system and sub culture and nothing to do with what happened to you ancestors. I repeatedly asked you to show a connection and you make none, primarily because you cannot.

    Its your choice to read or not read my previous post I really couldnt care less. You would benefit from reading it. At the very least learn from the format.

    You premise is that Indians are a special case because they suffered more than other minority groups. I think if you put the different minority groups on a scale Indians did suffer more than other groups, I mean look at all the Virgins and defeated warriors from other tribes the Aztec priests killed. Oh, whoops you just want to talk about genocide that comes from white people not the genocides that happen around the world generated from people of color, my bad.

    Anyway back to the topic:
    YOU NEVER MADE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN PAST INJUSTICES AND CURRENT ECONOMICE FAILURE, YOU NEVER GAVE THE REASON WHY PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR SINS THEY DID NO COMMIT, YOU NEVER EXPLAINED WHY ASIANS FACING RACIAL PREJUDICE WERE ABLE TO OVERCOME THOSE OBSTACLES TO ACHIEVE ECONOMIC PARITY.

    <font size=2 color= red>"My point, which you will never get, is that the whole concept of someone paying for their genetic precursors sins is itself a racist idea; completely at odds with MLKs color blind society. That is why you are a racist"
    We are talking about reparations from a promise made by a government that did not keep their promise. To state otherwise is quite racist in itself</font>

    So from your quote here anyone that does not agree with reparations is a racist; sable I have come to expect nothing less from you. Your command of orwellian doublespeak is truly amazing; to be a racist (feel people should be punished economically for the sin of being born white) is to be non-racist is in effect what you are saying.

    OTHER RANDOM POINTS:

    <ol>
    <li>You were never a victim of a survivor of any of the crimes you write about.
    <li>When I made the point that Asians suffer the same (yes same) set of circumstances in the modern era as other minorities you denied it you asked me to show you circumstances that Asians suffered I provided them for you.
    <li>The definition of same, currently Asians face the same set of circumstances as other minorities, yet they over come.
    <li>In the past they suffered racism on a level similar to blacks and Indians; they had land stolen from them, they were in effect slaves, they were starved and there freedom was taken from them. The racism they suffered was as vicious as anyone else.
    </ol>
    Terry

    Edited by - jelly on 29 January 2003 3:16:33

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