I usually gloss over any real long posts to see if its of any interest. When I read the first few lines I could not stop reading it. That was a great story, you have alot of talent. Thank you very much for sharing with us.
Eric
A Story About Faith
by jgnat 32 Replies latest jw friends
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Xander
Well, I'm in a rather acerbic mood again, but I'll try to be gentle in presenting an opposing view.
You use the words "I have faith" over and over, and at the end, of course, some kind of faith in divinity is presumed.
In usage, you're reduced those words to have no meaning at all. At least, given the limited context, in each case "I have faith" is used as a panacea, with no reason to support the belief.
The American Heritage dictionary, in it's second definition of 'faith' says thus:
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
And that is exactly how you present it here. Belief in a certain result of cause of actions based on no evidence to said claim.
Is this not something to be avoided? Believing in things or results that may not be true just because they feel good?
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concerned mama
Lovely, Jgnat. Sometimes you have to have faith, and just keep on going and trying your best. You've got it.
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jgnat
Xander, I was not trying to imply this fella had any religious pretentions at all. Nevertheless, you did say
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
And that is exactly how you present it here. Belief in a certain result of cause of actions based on no evidence to said claim.
If so, I accomplished my goal. In relationships, we often go out on a limb to believe in our loved ones, even though they have not proved themselves yet. Risky, indeed. And I believe, the essence of faith. My imaginary fella had it.
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Xander
Quite so, and you present that as a desirable quality.
I would call it naivete and attribute it to the inexperience of youth.
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jgnat
SheilaM, Concerned Mama, thank you. Pr_Capone, you pay me a compliment every writer yearns to hear. I hooked ya!
Xander, I spit in the eye of death and despair. I have been close enough to both. I have lived long enough too, I think, to be cured of any naivete. I chose trust and love and life, with eyes wide open. But that's just me.
Edited by - jgnat on 27 January 2003 16:59:57
Edited by - jgnat on 27 January 2003 17:0:55
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Xander
And yet, you advocate blind faith?
Surely you must have lived with a different human race than I, then?
Faith in a person or result without reason is not a safe course of action. "I have faith this will occur" seems an anathema to me. "I'll try to make this occur" is all I could offer.
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LoneWolf
Xander ---
Is this not something to be avoided? Believing in things or results that may not be true just because they feel good?
No, on two counts. First, because your assumption that just having something feel good is the reason most people have faith. I like the Bible's definition of faith, "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld." Hebrews 11:1
Most people don't read the passage with any real comprehension of what it is saying. The key words here are those that I've put in bold type. "Assured", and "evident demonstration", are referring to things that appeal to the intellect, not emotion. Gullibility is a word that is more befitting to those things that we believe for that reason.
Let me give an example. I quite freely give my wife my paycheck and complete freedom to do with it as she wishes. I have no proof that she will not use it to run off with the garbage man and go to Hawaii. However, I have faith in her due to her past history of faithfulness and common sense. My knowledge of that history assures me that my paycheck (and my heart) is safe, and the many times that I have entrusted her with this responsibility is the evident demonstration that things will be fine this time too, although I have yet to behold this one instance.
I'll use another illustration to show that having something "feel good" has nothing to do with faith. I certainly do not "feel good" about pedophilia and those who practice it. Yet I have faith that they are not trustworthy in this matter because their history is an evident demonstration that assures me that they will probably do it again. Yet at the same time, I cannot prove that any one individual actually will reoffend.
Secondly, I object to society's insistance that nothing is worth putting faith in unless every little part of it is backed by "empirical" knowledge. That effectively restricts us to only those things that other people have already researched and pioneered. I don't know about you, but spearheading inquiries into areas that have never been researched, or as the Star Trek slogan says "going where no man has ever gone before" is something that I neither can nor wish to resist.
The mindset demonstrated by your words above smacks of a life ruled by a fear of the unknown, and that is something that does not rule my life.
LoneWolf
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Xander
Far from 'fear' of the unknown. Lack of trust for the unknown, yes.
Note that what you are citing as examples is not the same as what the original poster said. RE:
have faith in her due to her past history of faithfulness and common sense
I have faith that they are not trustworthy in this matter because their history is an
Note that in both cases, you are basing your understanding on a PAST HISTORY. Reread the original post. That is not what they were advocating - what the original post comes out in favor of is blind faith - faith with no reason to believe.
In any case, if you have reason to believe something is true, it's probably not best to say you have 'faith' it is true, as that immediately implies you hope it is the case with no facts.
IE., it is not appropriate, given the definition of 'faith' as implied by this thread, to say "I have faith that they are not trustworthy in this matter" because what you have is not FAITH but EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE. Thus, it would be more appropriate to say: "I know that they are not trustworthy in this matter."
Indeed, Heb 11:1 goes along with this definition. In essence, the examples you gave may have been valid examples of 'faith' by one of its definitions, but it is NOT Heb 11:1 faith. Heb 11:1 faith defines, as a requirement "realities though not beheld", which means, faith without prior experience or reason.
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jgnat
Surely you must have lived with a different human race than I, then?
Surely not. Read my story if you like. Perhaps that will convince you I am not a Pollyanna.
Blind faith? No. Like I said above, I make a choice to have faith, with eyes wide open to the potential consequences.
If I described faith in biological terms rather than biblical, I argue we see faith all the time in the natural world.
Watching Robins in the spring, as first they lustily belt out their territory song, then wear themselves ragged slaving away for their chicks, furiously risking their own lives when their little family is threatened. Why do animal parents sacrifice their own health and well-being for their offspring? I have heard it argued that such behaviour is biologically selfish, because it perpetuates the continuation of the genetic line. We could say the robins have no choice. Their behaviour is programmed in to their genetic makeup.
When all the analysis is over, however, robins are still lovely birds to listen to and to watch. There is poetry in living with faith.
Edited by - jgnat on 27 January 2003 19:37:47