Subtle change in UK Blood Policy

by caspian 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • caspian
    caspian

    Marvin

    Thanks for your insight and input to this subject.

    You notice the title of the post was "subtle" change

    i.e HIS have just recently given up on the idea of forcing the "ward of court" document which 2 Doctors had to sign, before a JW child could have blood to complete outright co-operation,

    although this might just sound semantics, I feel that this is a huge shift in policy.

    Before the HLC would go to all lengths to help the Doctors find alternative treatments, now they don't even have to bother.

    Caspian

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    I know of two families that this exact scenario happened with, in our area several years ago!

    1996: One was with some close friends of ours, and we were there with them at the hospital. Their 13 year old daughter was in congestive heart failure, and had a dangerously VERY low hemoglobin. She was as white as paper. They wanted to transfuse her, and the HLC committee came in to help the family. My husband was asked to sit in with them, when they met with the doctors, because he was close to the husband, who was also an elder. (we studied with this family too) The HLC told the couple to allow them to transfuse the girl, and they would have no bloodguilt, because it was them doing it. They also didn't want the bad publicity, and said they had worked hard to develop a relationship with this children's hospital, and it would be ruined.

    1999 or 2000: The other was another good friend, who was seriously injured in a horseback riding accident. She broke several bones in her leg, and had internal injuries. Again, the HLC told her to take the blood, and to not make an issue of this.

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff
    I know of two families that this exact scenario happened with, in our area several years ago!

    1996: One was with some close friends of ours, and we were there with them at the hospital. Their 13 year old daughter was in congestive heart failure, and had a dangerously VERY low hemoglobin. She was as white as paper. They wanted to transfuse her, and the HLC committee came in to help the family. My husband was asked to sit in with them, when they met with the doctors, because he was close to the husband, who was also an elder. (we studied with this family too) The HLC told the couple to allow them to transfuse the girl, and they would have no bloodguilt, because it was them doing it. They also didn't want the bad publicity, and said they had worked hard to develop a relationship with this children's hospital, and it would be ruined.

    1999 or 2000: The other was another good friend, who was seriously injured in a horseback riding accident. She broke several bones in her leg, and had internal injuries. Again, the HLC told her to take the blood, and to not make an issue of this.

    Mulan: Who is the source for this? Your friend?

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    The first one, we were there, so I know personally, that it happened.

    The second one, is a close friend of Princess', who lives in our area. That advice is what caused her to start questioning the WTS. Now she is a total "pagan". We saw her two weeks ago, and I brought that up again. It happened.

    I would think there are many people who could document these.

  • Icansaylucky
    Icansaylucky

    Isn't tlhat so big of them to promise no sanctions on the child? Wow so generous of them. I bet they are treated differently anyway. I wonder how many parents suffer from guilt for secretly wishing the doctors take matters into their own hands and give blood. I would. I felt guilty for blinking too many times as it wasn't "in moderation", not literally of course but I'm sure everyone knows what I mean.

  • Mary
    Mary

    "...To inform the Doctors that a child will not face any sanctions within the congregation or be treated any differently because of the treatment..."

    Well that's mighty white of them........I guess the congregation will save all their sanctions and abuse for other children who accuse elders of sexual assaulting them.

  • happy man
    happy man

    Caspian.

    hello my friend, this sound crayzy fore mee, i dont understand evrything you say, but it can never be diffrent oppinons in England and sweden fore exampel how do you now that this polyci is only for england.

    love from happy man

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    I wonder if we are seeing a new trend here. Perhaps they are going to start viewing the whole medical blood thing the way the bible directs one to view meat at the market, namely, not to question the origin of the meat.

    So long as the JW himself does not consume or inject blood it will be OK. If the Dr thinks that someone needs blood, it will be the Dr who is injecting the blood, not the JW. Who is the JW to question the actions of a Dr?

    Everything that is sold in a meat market keep eating, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience --1Cor. 10:25

    Then again... it may simply be politics... not wanting to loose a relationship with a given hospital or get more bad publicity. If this is true, then it means that the WTS is becoming a fearer of man rather than god. [ Smerk ]

    If the WTS really is becoming a fearer of man rather than god , it means that they are in the early stages of "mainstreaming".

    Here is a related article that is likely to become "old light"...

    *** w92 10/15 30-1 Questions From Readers ***
    How concerned should Christians be that blood components, such as dried plasma, might have been added to food products?

    If there is valid basis to believe that animal blood (or a component of it) is definitely being used locally in food products, Christians should exercise due caution. Still, it would be unwise to be upset by mere suspicion or live with unfounded worry.

    Early in man's history, our Creator ruled that humans should not eat blood. (Genesis 9:3, 4) He stated that blood represents life, which is a gift from him. Blood removed from a creature could be used only in sacrifice, such as on the altar. Otherwise, blood from a creature was to be poured on the ground, in a sense giving it back to God. His people were to avoid sustaining life by taking in blood. He decreed: "You must not eat the blood of any sort of flesh, because the soul of every sort of flesh is its blood. Anyone eating it will be cut off." (Leviticus 17:11-14) God's prohibition on the eating of blood was repeated for Christians. (Acts 15:28, 29) So the early Christians needed to avoid food containing blood, such as meat from strangled animals or blood sausage.

    In practical terms, though, how would those Christians act on their determination to 'keep themselves from blood'? (Acts 21:25) Should they simply apply the apostle Paul's words: "Everything that is sold in a meat market keep eating, making no inquiry on account of your conscience"?

    No. Those words at 1 Corinthians 10:25 refer to meat that might have been from an animal sacrificed at an idol temple. Back then, excess meat from temples was disposed of by being sold to merchants, who might include it among their supply of meat for sale in their stores. Paul's point was that meat from a temple was not intrinsically bad or contaminated. Evidently it was customary to drain and use on the pagan altars the blood of animals sacrificed there. So if some of the excess meat was sold in a market, with no obvious link to a temple or the misconceptions of pagans, Christians could simply buy it as commercial meat that was clean and that had been suitably drained of blood.

    It would have to be different, however, if those Christians knew that meat from strangled animals (or blood sausage) was one of the choices at local shops. They would need to exercise care in choosing what meat to buy. They might be able to recognize the meat products that contained blood if such had a distinctive color (even as today blood sausage can usually be recognized in lands where it is common). Or Christians might inquire of a reputable butcher or meat merchant. If they had no reason to believe that certain meat contained blood, they could simply buy and eat.

    Paul also wrote: "Let your reasonableness become known to all men." (Philippians 4:5) That could apply to the matter of buying meat. Neither Israel's Law nor the decree of the first-century Christian governing body indicated that God's people had to go to great lengths in inquiring about meat, even becoming vegetarians if there was the slightest doubt about blood being in available meat.

    An Israelite hunter who killed an animal would drain its blood. (Compare Deuteronomy 12:15, 16.) If his family could not eat all the meat, he might sell some. Even in a properly bled carcass, a small amount of blood would remain in the meat, but nothing in the Bible suggests that a Jew buying meat needed to go to extremes in getting such facts as the number of minutes between killing and draining, which artery or vein was cut to let the blood flow, and how the animal was hung up and for how long. Furthermore, the governing body did not write that Christians had to take extraordinary precautions in this regard, as if they needed ultimate answers before eating any meat.

    In many lands today, the law, custom, or religious practice is such that meat products (except for unusual items, such as blood sausage) are from animals that must be drained of blood when slaughtered. Thus, Christians in those areas normally need not be preoccupied with slaughtering or processing methods. In an extended sense, they may simply 'keep eating commercial meat, making no inquiry,' and they can have a clear conscience that they are abstaining from blood.

    There have occasionally been technical reports, though, about commercial blood use that have disturbed certain Christians. Some in the meat-processing industry reason that large amounts of blood from slaughtered animals can be collected for practical applications and profit, such as in fertilizers or animal feed. Researchers have studied whether such blood (or components) might be used in processed meats. A few commercial plants have even turned out limited amounts of liquid, frozen, or powdered plasma (or decolorized red-cell material) that might be substituted for a small percentage of meat in sausagelike products or pt. Other studies have centered on using powdered blood derivatives as a filler or to bind water and fat in ground meat, in baking products, or in other foods and drinks to add protein or iron.

    It is worth noting, however, that such research has been going on for decades. Yet, it seems that use of such products has been very limited, or even nonexistent, in most lands. Some typical reports help to show why:

    "Blood is a source of nutritional and functional proteins. However, beef blood has been used only in limited quantities for direct human consumption because of the intense color and characteristic taste."-Journal of Food Science, Volume 55, Number 2, 1990.

    "Blood plasma proteins have useful properties such as high solubility, emulsifying activity and hydrophobicity . . . and their use in food processing offers great advantages. However, no effective system to sanitize plasma, especially after dehydration, has been established in Japan."-Journal of Food Science, Volume 56, Number 1, 1991.

    Some Christians have occasionally checked the labels on packaged foods, since many governments require that ingredients be listed. And they may choose to do so regularly with any product that they have reason to believe might contain blood. It would be right, of course, to avoid products that listed things such as blood, blood plasma, plasma, globin (or globulin) protein, or hemoglobin (or globin) iron. Marketing information from one European company in this field acknowledged: "Information concerning the use of globin as an ingredient must be marked on the package of the food in such a way that the consumer is not misled as to the composition or value of the food."

    However, even as to checking labels or making inquiry of butchers, reasonableness is needed. It is not as if every Christian worldwide must study the labels and ingredients on all packaged food or should interrogate employees at restaurants or food stores. A Christian might first ask himself, 'Is there any verified evidence that blood and its derivatives are used in normal food products in this area or country?' In most places the answer is no. Hence, many Christians have concluded that they personally will not divert a great deal of time and attention to checking on remote possibilities. A person who does not feel this way should act in accord with his conscience, without judging others who might resolve the matter otherwise but in good conscience before God.-Romans 14:2-4, 12.

    Even if food products containing blood can be produced, it may well be that this is not widely done because of cost, legislation, or other factors. For example, Food Processing (September 1991) noted: "For those processors that have any problems with the less than 1% (in the finished meat patty) of hydrolyzed beef plasma in the blend, an alternate mix replaces it with whey protein concentrate and could be certified as Kosher."

    It bears emphasizing that law, custom, or taste in many lands is such that blood is normally drained from slaughtered animals and that such blood is not used in other food products. If there is no substantial basis for thinking that the situation is different locally or that a major change has occurred recently, Christians should guard against becoming disturbed by mere possibility or rumor. When, though, it is certain or highly likely that blood is widely used-whether in food or in medical treatment-we should be determined to obey God's command to abstain from blood.

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Caspian,

    thanks for the information and I would like to comment on this part:

    "So great news for UK JW children, however this doesn't

    apply to JW children in other lands,"

    I can assure you, and I can support it by posting - material from

    the WTBS and associated corporations, that in many European

    countries, when are children involved, and in serious events,

    they - the parents- MUST give in and let the doctor/s proceed

    with the chosen therapy, inlcuding blood transfusions.

    Of course they'll say that it was by "court orders" and

    not by their own will or initiative. To act in a different way or even

    opposing, in these emergency situatiuons, invloving minor children

    it is considering a serious - crime- or omission of help to a person

    in danger. Anyhow, it will be interesting to - s e e - the actual

    information given to the HLC in Great Britain.

    Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello everyone,

    As I wrote before I can give you the written statements

    all taken from the WTBS official french site:

    http://www.temoinsdejehovah.org/

    1) Les Tmoins de Jhovah, la vie, le sang

    La dclaration solennelle du consistoire national des tmoins de Jhovah en date du 3 juillet 1997 a fait l'objet d'une brochure intitule " Les Tmoins de Jhovah, la vie, le sang ". Cette brochure est reproduite ici. Vous pouvez aussi la tlcharger au format pdf .


    Sommaire

    2) Les Tmoins de Jhovah, la vie, le sang

    DCLARATION SOLENNELLE DE L'ASSEMBLE PLNIRE
    DU CONSISTOIRE NATIONAL DES TMOINS DE JHOVAH
    RUNIE LE JEUDI 3 JUILLET 1997

    Dsireux d'honorer et de glorifier Jhovah, le Dieu Tout-Puissant ;
    Soucieux du bien-tre physique, moral et spirituel des adorateurs de Dieu ;
    Dtermins vivre en paix avec tous les hommes
    et rendre Csar ce qui lui revient ;

    Nous, CONSISTOIRE NATIONAL DES TMOINS DE JHOVAH,

    • Raffirmons solennellement notre attachement au caractre sacr de la vie et du sang ;
    • Considrons que chaque chrtien a le devoir sacr de protger la vie qu'il a reue en dpt ainsi que celle de ses enfants ;
    • Approuvons le texte intgral publi en annexe qui expose la position chrtienne des Tmoins de Jhovah sur le sujet des transfusions sanguines ;
    • Prions Dieu et demandons l'aide de son esprit saint pour favoriser l'amour des lois divines dans le respect de la dignit humaine ;
    • Confions au Porte-parole du Consistoire la mission de diffuser la prsente dclaration solennelle.

    Jean-Marie Bockaert,
    Prsident du Consistoire national

    Ill give you only the relevant and very interesting parts. Of course you can get the all text from the official site.

    3) La vie est sacre

    ES Tmoins de Jhovah sont connus, dans le monde entier, comme une religion chrtienne 1 . Leur nom est issu d'un passage de l'criture qui qualifie de tmoins les serviteurs de Dieu 2 . Ils comptent plus de 13 millions de fidles et sympathisants dans le monde, dont quelque 250 000 en France. Ils sont reprsents en France depuis le dbut du sicle. Leurs croyances sont fondes sur la Bible, qui est pour eux Parole de Dieu. Ils croient en un Dieu unique, le Pre, Jhovah, Crateur de toutes choses. Ils exercent la foi en Christ, Fils de Dieu. Ils vivent le christianisme et respectent les gouvernements et les autorits.

    Conformment aux principes bibliques, les Tmoins de Jhovah considrent la vie comme sacre. Par consquent, ils accordent une grande importance leur sant et celle de leurs enfants, et font tout ce qui est en leur pouvoir pour la prserver. Ils s'abstiennent du tabac, de la drogue, et font un usage modr de l'alcool. Ils recourent la mdecine moderne et ne font pas appel aux gurisons miraculeuses. Contrairement une ide rpandue, ils ne s'opposent pas la vaccination. Ils n'acceptent pas la transfusion du sang allognique (le sang d'un tiers). Ce choix est fond sur leur comprhension des textes bibliques 3 .

    Les seuls produits de l'arsenal thrapeutique actuel dont, le cas chant, le patient Tmoin de Jhovah pourrait s'abstenir sont le sang total, les concentrs globulaires, les concentrs plaquettaires, les concentrs leucocytaires ainsi que le plasma.

    Toutefois, certains Tmoins de Jhovah considrent, conformment leur libre choix religieux, que les principes bibliques impliqus n'cartent pas l'utilisation des produits de fractionnement du plasma tels que l'albumine, les immunoglobulines, l'antithrombine et les facteurs de coagulation 4 . De plus, de nombreux Tmoins acceptent la transfusion de sang autologue (le sang de la personne elle-mme) au cours de procdures telles que l'hmodilution normovolmique et la rcupration per- et postopratoire du sang. Ils vitent ainsi de nombreuses maladies transmissibles par le sang, dont certaines sont potentiellement mortelles. Ainsi, propos des Tmoins de Jhovah, le Commissaire du Gouvernement Patrick Hubert considre qu'il faut se placer sur le seul " terrain des faits et valuer les risques en tenant compte des individus en prsence " 5 .

    Les patients Tmoins de Jhovah recourent systmatiquement aux soins mdicaux, comme tout un chacun, et souhaitent bnficier de leurs bienfaits. Ils sont trs reconnaissants au corps mdical qui se dvoue au bien-tre des patients. Leur position spcifique, en tant que groupe religieux, ne concerne que les produits sanguins avec les nuances mentionnes plus haut.

    Il s'agit donc d'un choix thrapeutique, ce qui n'est pas assimilable un refus global de soins 6 . Cette option est d'autant mieux admise par le corps mdical que, malheureusement, les dangers des produits sanguins se sont manifests de faon spectaculaire et dramatique dans les annes 80 avec l'avnement de l'infection par le HIV. Nous n'oublierons pas les risques immunologiques (incompatibilit entre le receveur et le donneur) potentiellement ltaux, connus depuis longtemps, ainsi que les autres risques infectieux, comme l'hpatite C 7 . Actuellement, la baisse potentielle de l'immunit la suite d'une transfusion 8 ainsi que le risque de transmission d'agents infectieux non conventionnels responsables des affections telles que la maladie de Creutzfeldt-Jakob 9 , issue fatale systmatique, ont veill de nouvelles craintes en cours d'investigation. Bien que ces facteurs puissent influencer le choix des Tmoins de Jhovah, leur position relve principalement de leur respect individuel des instructions divines relatives l'usage du sang : il appartient chacun d'entre eux d'utiliser son libre arbitre.

    (Notice that it is said in the conditional form: they might abstain.

    And its referring not to the people in general but to the Jehovahs Witnesses.)

    4) La question des mineurs

    Eu gard l'enseignement de la Bible et aux dangers rels de la transfusion, les parents Tmoins de Jhovah tendent leur choix thrapeutique leurs enfants. Ils reconnaissent que le mdecin a la possibilit de saisir l'autorit judiciaire pour administrer une transfusion contre leur volont. Nanmoins, l'exprience montre que l'intrt des parents a trs souvent permis la mise en uvre de thrapeutiques alternatives la transfusion, scientifiquement prouves, chez leurs enfants mineurs 24 . Par ailleurs, partir d'un certain ge, le mineur est susceptible de faire valoir sa propre autodtermination 25 , ce que respectent naturellement ses parents.

    Les Tmoins de Jhovah cherchent procurer les meilleurs soins pour leurs enfants. Ces derniers sont hospitaliss comme les autres enfants 26 . Les parents comprennent que demander de soigner leurs enfants sans employer de sang peut engendrer des difficults techniques et des rsistances thiques chez des praticiens non rompus aux techniques de soins sans transfusion.

    Dans la recherche de soins appropris pour leurs enfants, ces parents s'adressent souvent des mdecins renomms qui utilisent efficacement des techniques alternatives la transfusion, des mdecins qui ont dj collabor avec les patients Tmoins de Jhovah. Le plus souvent, les soins sont possibles sans recours au sang. Dans les cas les plus complexes, lorsque l'indication transfusionnelle semble s'imposer immdiatement ou potentiellement, les parents participent activement la recherche d'une technique de substitution. Ils peuvent faire appel la structure mise en place par les Tmoins de Jhovah pour faciliter cette recherche. Ainsi, si un procd thrapeutique a fait la preuve de son efficacit, ou si le recours la comptence d'une autre quipe mdicale rduit le risque de transfusion sans mettre en danger le processus vital, ils privilgieront cette dernire option efficacit mdicale quivalente.

    L'ide selon laquelle des parents renieraient leur enfant transfus contre leur gr, le considrant comme impur, est absolument inacceptable pour les Tmoins de Jhovah. Une telle conception des choses n'a aucun fondement biblique. Ces parents ne voudront aucun prix priver leur enfant qu'ils chrissent de l'attention et de l'amour dont il a besoin, tout particulirement dans les moments prouvants qu'engendrent des soins mdicaux lourds.

    (They recognize that the doctor has the possiblity to call upon the judicial authority to administer a blood transfusion against ones will.)

    5)

    La structure internationale mise en place par les Tmoins de Jhovah prsente un bilan trs positif pour l'ensemble des partenaires. La confiance indispensable dans la relation malade-mdecin est renforce. Le mdecin, lui, bnficie, par l'intermdiaire du comit de liaison hospitalier, de la documentation relative aux thrapeutiques alternatives la transfusion sanguine dans sa spcialit, mais aussi d'informations juridiques et thiques 31 . Le comit de liaison hospitalier peut aussi, sur sa demande, le mettre en contact avec d'autres confrres ayant une plus grande exprience des patients Tmoins de Jhovah pour des problmes spcifiques. La structure franaise a souscrit un contrat auprs de la compagnie Mondial Assistance qui transfre, si besoin est, le patient vers un tablissement hospitalier appropri lorsque le centre o il est hospitalis n'est pas mme de poursuivre les soins en respectant ses convictions. Le cas chant, il est aussi prvu de transfrer du matriel mdical ou une quipe sur le lieu d'hospitalisation afin d'utiliser des techniques d'pargne sanguine non disponibles sur place.

    En France, se rfrant l'activit cumule de 1993 1996, les comits de liaison hospitaliers ont coopr avec les mdecins pour assurer des soins de qualit en conformit avec les donnes acquises de la science chez 11 877 patients (10 385 adultes et 1 492 enfants). Il est noter qu'une transfusion a t administre en moyenne chez 12 mineurs par an, reprsentant 3,2 % des cas de mineurs traits. En d'autres termes, la structure mise en place par les Tmoins de Jhovah a fourni une solution mdicale dans le respect de la volont des patients et de l'thique des soignants. Ces rsultats, tays par une bibliographie scientifique croissante, soulignent l'vidence d'une mdecine et d'une chirurgie sans transfusion efficaces et en plein essor. Ils s'inscrivent dans une dmarche thique fonde sur le respect et la promotion de la dignit humaine.

    Copyright 1999 Association Cultuelle les Tmoins de Jhovah de France. Tous droits rservs.
    Adresse postale : B.P. 625, 27406 Louviers Cedex - Tlphone : 02.32.25.55.55 - Tlcopie : 02.32.25.56.56

    (Note that they say that, on average, transfusion has been administerd to 12

    minors /year, which represented 3.2% of treatred cases of minors.)

    By the way, Im sure that many Jehovahs Witnesses even in France dont know

    these things, nor the existence of a body called L'ASSEMBLE PLNIRE
    DU CONSISTOIRE NATIONAL DES TMOINS DE JHOVAH!!

    I hope that this will be of help, and I do that my friend Alberto for the

    Cooperation.

    Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

    P.S. Sorry for the difference in size.

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